Why the F-35 needs an engine upgrade

With the advent of the Block 4 upgrades, the F-35 needs more cooling capacity from its engine. See how Pratt & Whitney is offering Engine Core Upgrades or ECU and how General Electric wants its Adaptive XA100 Engine to be considered.

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Credits/Attributions:
"The appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) visual information does not imply or constitute DoD endorsement."
Department of Defense
Boeing
Raytheon
Pratt & Whitney
General Electric

#F35 #ECU #Upgrade

[FLMKane]

Maintaining two different engines isnt exactly a logistical nightmare. Heck they've been using a mix of ge and pw engines on the 4th gen fighters for decades

[jimiraybeckton]

I’m an employee of GE Aerospace here in Cincinnati, and I personally worked on the prototype of the AETP engine. The benefits it offers are second to none! Not just with cooling, but thrust, efficiency, acceleration…it’s a beast! Let’s hope our “powers that be” make the right decision!
Another great video!

[RuminatingStoner]

Adaptive cycle or dual detonation? Regarding heat, the F135 isn't the only issue. The Radar Absorbent Material has to be upgraded to ceramic RAM to stop it from blistering.

[dstavs]

Sooo… the AETP is Pratt & Whitney’s version of VTEC. I wonder what the AETP crossover sounds like… BWAAAH!

[EricinSoKo]

What I’ve seen elsewhere is speculation that the NGAP money going to Lockheed, Boeing, and Grumman isn’t to design an engine but to figure out how to implement the PW and GE engines into their NGAD prototypes.

[YA]

As a former PW engineer (now at Lockheed) who’s worked closely with F135 and XA101, it is my personal opinion (not speaking on behalf of either company) that F135 ECU is the most cost effective option to meet the need for expanded PTMS capability. Bringing in an adaptive engine is just way too expensive and time consuming - just think of all the airframe redesign work (to accommodate the bigger and heavier engine) to actually testing and verifying the engine itself. Definitely not a trivial change.

On adaptive engines - just think about it; you’re talking about a third stream of air. This means the fan stream needs to be split, requiring a separate duct - while this looks trivial in a cross section, it is actually quite a lot of metal added (especially considering the radius at which this structure is being introduced), increasing the size and weight of the engine. Whatever benefit this architecture has in thrust and SFC, you have to weigh it against the cost of R&D in the engine and airframe, as well as maintenance. So in the end, while you might get better absolute specs out of an adaptive engine, it is likely is not the most cost effective way to improve the platform.

[mikel]

One thing to note. The emphasis on stealth with the f35. It may be stealth in the electromagnetic spectrum. But with such a hot engine. They are NOT stealthy in the IR spectrum.

[davidwolf]

You've touched on a subject matter that, quite frankly, I've never even considered until watching this video. However, it is clear that the use of so much electronics coupled with reliable engines cannot be overstated. Which begs the question... why would these new Block 4 and 5 programs even be considered w/o first deciding on either the GE or PW engines to use? This seems like a "putting the cart before the horse" scenario. What am I missing?

[scottnj]

i enjoyed this in a peculiar since... I think many folks, myself included. Often don't think about "conservation of energy". Electrons gotta come from somewhere, they're not free. Just like a car... the more frills, the greater the need for horsepower to maintain a given performance profile. Aircraft are no different. TANSTAFL...There Ain't No Such Thing As a Free Lunch. Angry pixies (electrons) have a cost. In the case of the F-35, lowest bidder on the engine...played to the spec, not to the future. Now we all pay $$$ Grrrr

[afterburner]

Thanks for fair reporting, no one in mainstream covers this when hammering on the F-35/F135. @3:23

[daym]

Thank you for such a simple explanation, that even a kid can understand. teaching/explaining is an art for which many intelligent people struggle.
Your an excellent teacher pilot photo g

[Kneedragon]

Quick question ~ what is an 'Adaptive Engine?'
High efficiency engines, like on airliners, have a high bypass ration. 7 or 8x as much air goes through the 1st stage compressors, as goes through the main engine. But a high performance military engine, is a low bypass ratio engine. This gives less weight and more after burner capacity, but it does limit efficiency in normal use. What if you could adapt the bypass ratio while the engine was running? What if you could significantly change the ratio of air that goes through the main core and air that doesn't?
That's what an Adaptive engine is.
The clever parts for vertical takeoff & landing in the B model, those are at the front of the engine, including a power take off and a big horizontal fan. Having additional clever ducting at the front of the engine to allow more or less air through the main body ~ let's just say I can see how that might complicate and compromise the design. I'm not sure it's impossible, but it's sure as hell awkward.

[TheShorterboy]

Fighters unlike your mobile don't want their air frame getting hotter dude that's just gold for IRS missiles.
Also F-35 can't go 20% for any length of time due to the epoxy RAM coating melting

[Hey_MikeZeroEchoP]

W O W All these acronyms!! PTMS, NGAD, EPACS, XA100, ECU, AETP, NASA, even the word NAVY ( Never Again Volunteer Yourself ).

BUT Super Work 'Tog', Your research work has ALWAYS been "Top Peg"!!

Hope you had a Safe & Happy 4th!!!

[e.s.]

if the F35 is stuck at the block 3 version for the Marine Core It would fall right in line with the narrative of the USMC getting the leftover equipment and not the latest and the greatest but still kicking everyone's ass anyways.

[collinwilliams]

So, I work for Lockheed on the F35. I feel the need to clarify some points.

The cooling issues do not happen in flight. The air is cool up there. The "overheating" happens on the ground. There are cooling issues while they sit at idle. Military runs the IPP for ground maintenance instead of using ground power and cooling equipment. Electronics get hot but rarely overheat. Unless they are in high temp environments like the desert. Pratt is working the issue for better cooling.

G.E. does not have engines on, in, or for F35. Because of several catastrophic fuel line issues on Pratt engines, discussions from management at LM have begun to 'maybe' use GE engines.

[Rose.Of.Hizaki]

On a side note - The stealth coating Lockheed use is a bit fragile and can only withstand mach 1.2 or 1.3 for really short bursts. If pilots were to completely floor it and fly the F-35 at its maximum speed for extended periods, the stealth coating is going to burn off in the atmosphere.

Unless a more durable coating is discovered/created. having a higher top speed means very little unless you are willing to sacrifice your stealth to achieve it. A more powerful engine can help the plane when it comes to handling though.

[tomcook]

What are the cool green rectangular lights for? Formation?

[solarissv]

I wonder, if they could just use heat exchangers to transfer heat to kerosene before it gets into the combustion chamber? At high altitudes it should be quite cold

[pju]

As always a nice experience enjoying your videos. Keep on it! Thumbs up for your work and information! Greetings from AT