Does the Sensor Matter? Leica M10 vs. Sony A7RV!

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How much of the photo is in the lens, and how much is in the sensor? Join me in Yosemite as I shoot the Leica 50mm Summicron on both the Leica M10 and Sony A7RV!

0:00 - Intro in Yosemite
1:06 -Tunnel View
2:04 - The Test
4:44 - Real Talk
9:19 - Comparisons
14:42 - Summary
16:03 - Closing
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Hey. colorist here. I shoot both Leica and Sony as well. I agree the Leica picture looks much richer - but I think in large it’s due to the Sony by default being much more blue in the mid tones where the Leica looks warmer. Would love to see an M11 comparison w/ Leica 50, vs. Sony w/ Sony 50.. just for fun.

adamoe
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Hi Dave. I think the difference seen between both has to do with the image processor rather than the sensor. Sony produces sensors for several other companies yet they all look different because of the processor. It seems to me that the Leica processor is baking more clarity and texture in the Raw file than the Sony which looks flat as you said. Great content. Cheers from Everett, WA!

aviatorman
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My first DSLR was a Canon 40D with a 50mm f1.8, then onto the A7S line including my current A7S III with a 24mm f1.4 and 55mm f1.8. I also picked up a small Leica CL with a 23mm f2. I'm consistently impressed with the images the CL spits out given how small it is compared to my full frame A7SIII. The best way I can describe it is that my Leica CL conveys textures quite well. What you said about running your finger across El Cap and feeling every bit of it is what I find consistently in my CL pictures whether it's food, skin, textiles, or anything else.

ab
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Is it possible to do a cross change? Test a recent Sony lens on the Leica.

clintans
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Unfortunately this doesn't end up being a comparison of sensors, but moreso a comparison of Adobe's default RAW file interpretation per manufacturer, irrespective of the "Profile" selected. In this case, the default interpretation of Leica's file starts with higher contrast, probably influenced highly by Leica themselves. The push and pull of each RAW file is where you see what kind of contrast and range each file can really give.

nubscrub
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the difference could be the light change. from the time it took to take each picture. otherwise numerous examples taken simultaneously could show it is better than the sony. i'm not a sony fanboy, just saying the test needs to be fair... even 1 second of light change can make a huge difference. it looks like the leica just had a bit more light giving extra contrast from a cloud that moved away out of scene to the right. you can see the clouds are different in each shot. i'd be curious to see a more controlled test. either way, both look great and neither is "noticeably" better than the other really, just a bit different.

seanivrymusic
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There was also the discussion that M lenses don't work well on the Sonys because of the distance from lens to sensor. I can't remember it exactly but I heard that M lenses on Sony produce "smudigier" images than on Leica. Different story with Leica R. Maybe this plays a role too why the texture rendering is so different?

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I have a Leica SL and compared it against, Nikon D810, Sony A7RIII, Canon R6 and R5, and Fuji XT3. I was blown away by the Raw files from the SL beat everyone in colors. Colors popped like they were ready edited.

SpiritLifeMinistriesInt
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Dave, I agree completely. I use (almost) the same set up as You (Leica M10 and Sony A7Riii). Minus Leica Q2. I've decided to wait for the Q3. As a cinematographer and editor I have the same idea about Leica vs. Sony RAW-files. Leica have "the Leica look" which give me almost "tactile" pictures. I can "feel" surface structures in my pictures. Sony give my RAW-files "to work on". Just one more thing. Leica engineers have put a lot of effort into designing the microlenses on the sensor to suit the the short distance between lens mount and sensor. Perhaps that also matters. And one more thing, I my opinon You have to add the processor to the chain. Processor programing also play a role in this drama. Small note; I don't use Lightroom. I work in Capture One, but my findings are exactly the same as Yours! Keep up the great work Dave!

Larsghed
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Thanks. I know others may not agree, but I felt that this is one of the few helpful comparisons of the Leica m10 body in comparison to other camera bodies on the market. I would like to see even a more in-depth comparison, but none the less it is a good presentation of the two systems.

dtk
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I remember when I had original 12mp A7S, and I made a comparison shots with A7Riii I immediately noticed the difference in image in terms of contrast and pop. The shots from A7Riii looked flatter, similar to what you showed here. I then thought maybe higher megapixels makes image look flat…

But after a bit of tweaking I matched the images. I’m not a specialist, but I feel that maybe it’s just some factory settings on the sensor that makes this impact to the image, even to the RAW image.

I feel that Sony has more standard, closer to reality look. While brands like Fuji and Leica make some tweaks to make it more pleasing right from the RAW.

I noticed that it’s always more pleasing to move blues closer to the teal, and warm colours brighter a bit and closer to orange.
And this is exactly what I see in Canon images compared to the Sony.

I tried Canon versus Sony photos and I don’t believe in Canons magic color science. It’s just factory preset to tweak a bit colours to make it pleasing for the people.
It’s easily to match Sony to Canon.

I don’t know about Leica, never tried :-)

MagnetiqLabs
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This is a great test. Please do more :) It would be interesting to see if you could tweak the Sony in the settings and in post to get it to look like the Leica as near as possible

mrfairycake
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Could the difference between the two cameras be a result of how the software reads the Raw files? What would happen if you opened the same files in other programs?

Fauxtonics
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Thanks Dave!! Wonderful video, more for your words and thoughts than the photos! I enjoyed it very much!

jasonbokar
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Sensors are nothing but analogue devices to convert the energy of photons into electrons. They differ from each other in the way the photosites that ultimately produce the voltage before the onboard ADC turns them inot zeros and ones, makes ' electricity '. So yes, how a sensor produces the elctrons and its spectral response do matter somewhat, but what matters most is post ADC when all those billions of zeros and ones have to be interpreted and reconstructed by the computer inside your camera using highly sophisticated algorithms, and this is where the real difference comes from. Leica has a very unique interpretation of colour, as evident in your photographs. It is not better nor worse than any other manufacturer, but to me it is more appealing ' out of the box '. That it stands up to the 60MP Sony is a testament to the Leica lens. The magic that the lens performs is even more important if not paramount, in film photography, as here it is only the film and the lens that record the detail, the camera is just a black light tight box .

lensman
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This is great! Hope you hit 1, 000 subscribers soon!

sandpiperphotogallery
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Im about to get an M10 myself very soon, just having a look if I can find a good deal. But Lens wise I‘ll probably go with either the 35 or 50 summicron

lukas_shotz
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What I would like to know is the degree of color tone separation in each camera. Or does it even matter?

JayToGo
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Awesome video. I love this stuff.
I think it might not even be the sensors themselves that play a huge role in image quality, but the filters on these sensors really do. If you take a look at the images coming from the Monochrome camera's where the filters are removed, they appear to have much more contrast and it's almost like how the dehaze filter works in LR. Just saying though!

cresk
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I use an a7r4a with Voigtlander APO and old R Summilux and Summicon. I find lenses character are different with the same sensor (and camera), similar but to a lesser extent than your comparison.

During the film (Fujichrome) day, there was a big difference between Leica lenses and other brands.

We probably need to pick both camera body and lenses to ones liking in digital day’s although post shooting editing can help.

waynetong