113. Rule Scenarios - Foul and a miss

Second of two videos in which Barry demonstrates scenarios where the rules of the game can come into question. This video talks about the 'foul and miss' rule. The first rule scenarios video 112 talks about the 'free ball' and 'touching ball' rules.

[razaj]

Dear Barry, a wonderful video as always. This is just my opinion though, but I very much preferred your original intro, without the techno music. I just feel like it better suits the feel of your own videos, nice and calm. This newer one just seems a little too pumped up, if you know what I mean. Just my own preference, but thought I'd share. Cheers

[FJHALI]

Very interesting as always, but I'm also one of those who prefer the old music intro that fits better with the atmosphere of the video...Of course, it's a matter of taste :-)

[tomaaron]

Fascinating. It adds another level of enjoyment to the game when these situations pop up. As a scientist I live in one world but then its fun to step through the door into the Snooker Universe. Its like being privy to a secret society.The 'rules 'only have meaning in the context of that special place shared by Snooker players and fans. Much appreciated from Canada.

[bensherman]

Excellent explanation of the rules Barry. It's worth mentioning that the referee also has the discretion to not call a miss - if they believe the snooker is impossible to escape, or the player made their absolute best attempt to escape it.

[adityavyas]

This was very insightful! Thanks Barry and the entire team for bringing this to us ... just washed every confusion that i had over these months as I’m fairly new to the game.. great video again really appreciate the content👍🏻

[edwardhugus]

Thank you, Mr Stark. I am just watching your wonderful game for the 1st time, and saw a player shoot the same shot 6 times....wow, was I confused! I read it in the rules, but you explaining it made it much better.

[musokid]

I just LOVE the way you explain things Barry :) Great video as always!

[birdseyeview]

A Very succinct demonstration and vividly explained Mr Stark🤜🏻🤛🏻

[billiardsandsnookervideosn]

I think Barry's explanation is very clear including his explanation of how central contact on the on ball means you must hit an on ball and if you don't then after the cue ball has been put back twice then the referee will warn the striker that a third miss will result in the loss of the frame. There are a few things I think were not made enough clear, Barry correctly says that there is only one set of rules and they apply the same to all players, I also agree with his comment that some local leagues limit the number of miss calls that can be made, that gets done in many places and it is perfectly acceptable under the rules. The first thing I wanted to make very clear is that if a player cannot hit the on ball then its not a miss. The reason is that the rule is very clear when it says that the player shall 'Endeavour' to hit the on ball, "Endeavour to hit according to ability" does not mean 'must hit it' it means do your best to hit it as the rules take into account that all players are not the same and they don't have the same ability, so a simple way to think about the miss rule is to include in your thinking that 'its only a miss if you can hit it but you don't' and the referee can explore your ability a few times by adding its a Miss too, to see if he thinks you are doing your best to hit it or not, when he sees that you are doing your best and you can't hit it, then he should stop calling the failure as being a miss and just say foul, if a referee keeps calling it as a miss when its clear you can't hit it, then he is in error. The second thing is that this rule was brought into the game to stop cheating as many players including top players would just miss deliberately and play a stroke that limits the damage to themselves by deliberately missing the on ball and leaving the cue ball safe, doing that is cheating and something had to be done to make clear that if you can hit the on ball then you must hit it and rolling the cue ball safe is totally unacceptable. Golf has rules, all sport do, and Cue Sports have rules too. At lower levels of the game some beginner players say "why should I be called a having played a miss when I am a 3rd class or 4th class beginner player? The reason is that the rules are the same for all players and you cannot just make a zero effort attempt by rolling the cue ball onto a cushion when you know it wont go close, doing that is cheating, you have to try to hit and if you do your best and you cant hit it then it's not a miss, one thing that should make a player happy is that by doing you best to hit it, then you will become a better player, and you will start hitting it more often, not trying to hit it is cheating. N

[BBBBD]

Dear Barry, I care not what music you play as the intro to your videos, it's the content of the video I care about which is always top notch, keep up the great work 👍

[SatanicXray]

Your an inspirational snooker teacher Barry you always teach people and the children how it’s done

[billiardsandsnookervideosn]

I remember anouther incident with Ronnie when the cue ball was in the middle of a group of reds and his failed escape attempts were called a miss a few times then without hitting the cue ball he fouled a red with the under edge of his cue and broke the sequence, being able to escape the provisions of the F&A M rule that way has been stopped, Many people have below pointed out that the hole in the rules has been blocked (14. Foul and a Miss (e) After the cue-ball has been replaced under this Rule, and the striker fouls any ball, including the cue-ball while preparing to play a stroke, a miss will not be called if a stroke has not been played. In this case the appropriate penalty will be imposed. The next player may then elect to play himself or ask the offender to play again from the position left or the original position. If being asked to play again, the ball on shall be the same as prior to the last stroke made, namely: (i) any Red, where Red was the ball on; (ii) the colour on, where all Reds were off the table; or (iii) a colour of the striker’s choice, where the ball on was a colour after a Red had been potted. N

[ebojfmdboojoh]

I remember a short Mark Williams played once where he potted the blue and ended up touching ball on a red. There was another red over a pocket but it was obscured by the Black. Mark Williams very quickly decided to plant the black onto the red over the pocket and potted it. I thought it showed great imagination to think of playing it and be aware of the rules on a touching ball so quickly

[witzar]

From the rules: "A miss is when the cue-ball fails to first contact a ball on and the referee considers that the striker has not made a good enough attempt to hit a ball on".
The "good enough attempt" part of this definition is quite important, so perhaps Barry can explain it in the follow up video?

[srvafool]

But, because the rules gave John the opportunity to either play the shot or make Ronnie play it, it was still a fair outcome to be decided by John Higgins. If there was a red on, he could have played it, or if there was a good chance of a safety, he could play that. If there wasn't a red on or a good chance at a safety, he could make Ronnie play it. That's one reason why I love snooker!! Thanks Barry!!

[pushingtin]

Barry...it was in 2008 i met Ronnie and we talked about the foul and miss and and how frustrated he was being put back in when he has made a genuine attempt at the ball on. I was a referee back home (southern hemisphere) of some standing. I told him that you could get around that rule by fouling while on the ball on. Him and all his mates around him said how???...they were all agasp....i told him the foul ends the players turn and the other player has his turn. Well blow me down, i'm sitting at home watching the game between John and Ronnie and i see him doing it!!!!....i was jumping about at home saying i told Ronnie a year ago ago to my wife....so i feel i am a part of history...did Ronnie cheat...no...he just made use of a flaw in the rules that i told him...btw the rule as regards this particular situation has been amended and the miss is awarded now...

[andrewsmith]

Barry, In my local club, at least for lower grades, the miss rule is only applied, from a snookered position, if a player fails to reach the ball he was aiming for. If he reaches or passes the ball a miss is not awarded, whether he misses by a millimeter or a metre. It is considered that the player has made a genuine attempt to hit the ball, so a miss is not awarded. Comments?
I also remember seeing a match where Mark Selby was in a very difficult snooker. He failed to reach the ball he was aiming for twice and a miss was adjudged on both occasions. On the third attempt he reached the ball, but missed by a millimeter or two and a miss was not adjudged. A discussion regarded this as good/brave refereeing. Again Comments?

[kevinbrennan]

Clearly there's a lot more i need to learn. Thanks for the "heads up".

[neilarmstrong]

Hello! Very informative video. I think that now if on the tavle are 35 points and i've missed and difference became 35 points there is a miss.
And in a sequence of fall and a miss if an opponent faults any ball even the cue ball, the miss will not be called. The non-offender
may then elect to play themselves from the position left, or
request the offender to play again from the position left or
the original position, in which latter case all balls shall be
replaced and the ball on shall be the same as it was prior
to the last stroke made. Right?

[guillaumetoury]

On the first situation I always thought that the player had to be able to touch the 2 edges of the ball as with the rule of the free ball, I was wrong.
Thank you for all your videos