Pete Buttigieg on 2024 and the ‘Crank Realignment’

America has become increasingly polarized when it comes to trust. Voters who distrust the system — who see institutions as corrupt and are prone to conspiracy theories — have long existed on the far left and far right. But Donald Trump seems to have sparked a realignment, what the writer Matthew Yglesias calls “the crank realignment.” The G.O.P. is now the political home of the distrustful, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s Trump endorsement was a clear sign of these changing times.

In 2020, Pete Buttigieg wrote a book on trust in politics. And he’s been persistent in making the case — in speeches, on TV — for what he calls “a better kind of politics.” So I wanted to talk to him about his theory of politics. Why does he think so many Americans have lost trust in the government? What responsibility does the Democratic Party have here? And how does he believe trust can be restored?

Note: I invited Buttigieg on the show in his personal capacity so we could discuss his thoughts on the election without violating the Hatch Act, which prohibits members of the government from campaigning in their official guise. This also means I wasn't able to ask Buttigieg many questions about his work as transportation secretary. But I think we still had a pretty fascinating conversation.

0:00 Intro
2:43 Why political trust has declined
13:08 JD Vance
21:28 Housing policy
27:08 Economic policy
35:40 Immigration policy
46:17 Foreign policy
55:16 Book recommendations

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Jonah Kessel, Elliot DeBruyn and Selcuk Karaoglan.

[LouisvilleHawk]

His point about the MAGA woman apologizing to her Haitian neighbors was the first thing I thought as well. This lady had more guts and integrity than the people she supports for President and VP.

[kathybeck]

My husband is a proud Teamster member. He is living a very good life on Teamster's retirement, after a 37 year career with UPS. He/we had NO IDEA that the Biden administration bailed out the Teamster's retirement fund!!! And, we are somewhat consistent followers of accurate/real news media coverage. So, our experience absolutely proves Mr. Buttigieg's assertion that people are unaware of where their 'good' originates. Keep spreading the word, Pete!

[deborahsamar]

I could listen to Pete B. day and night. Hes so smart and sensible and calming. Thank You Pete

[debbiecarter]

OMG Pete!! What an absolutely incredible intellect. You are the great shining hope for the future. I am 68 years old and am so grateful that you are on the scene. We need your abilities to explain complicated policies and political thoughts like never before. ❤

[MaureenWeiner-uzdr]

Love hearing Pete speak. He is so intelligent and informed. His analyses are eye opening. I’m hoping we see him run for President again next cycle.

[dumbartonyankee]

Pete always manages to soothe my frayed nerves and give me hope for America. We need more Pete.

[DeborahPeterson-lo]

I am moved every time I hear Pete Buttigieg speak. He’s Intelligent, thoughtful, well read and articulate. There is no one else alive today who’s opinion I relish more. I hope I live long enough to vote for him as president of the United States.

[susanacton]

If the US is lucky enough to have this man on the presidential ballot - I hope they don't hesitate

[RandallHeath]

So refreshing to listen to someone as smart and genuine as Buttigieg. We need more public servants like him.

[Perserra]

I'm a simple man, I see a Pete Buttigieg interview, I click on the video.
Such an amazing communicator and political thinker.

[jeffreycotton]

Listening to Pete gives me hope! His intelligence and compassion are what this country needs to heal!

[FlamingSwordOfWisdom]

Pete is one of my heroes. I served under don’t ask, don’t tell. I know how incredibly hard that is. This man deserves everyone’s respect.

[mathewemden]

That was a great interview. I had the pleasure of meeting Secretary Buttigieg at the airport the other day. He was very kind, said hello and even let me take a selfie with him.

[tinac]

Every time I hear the Pete Buttigieg speak, my first reaction is always great relief, soothing my nearly worn-out nerves. His intelligence and thoughtfulness are so very needed in our government.

[parrisgjerde]

I love Pete. So insightful. And Ezra, what a fantastic interview. The questions were so thoughtful and insightful. Great questions driving great answers!

[card]

He can make the driest subject understandable and interesting. I could listen to him all day.

[martyalbershardt]

Keep listening to this man. He's really important for our democracy - he cares so much about it.

[vh]

Excellent interview! What a pleasure to listen to two calm, articulate people discuss the state of politics. Could listen to Pete all day!

[moken]

One if the best politicians and messengers in US politics!

[charlotteschaefers]

This interview is the most informative of any I have heard this election season. Mayor Pete has a way of explaining the whys and how’s of government, politics and humanity.