NTSB Preliminary Report PA-31 Loss of Control on Takeoff Albany NY

17 June 2024 LINKS:

Theme: "Weightless" Aram Bedrosian

[jmp.tb]

I retired from professional flying after 47 years and my Before Takeoff habit never changed. All items were read and accomplished yet when cleared for takeoff I did a swift look around the cockpit and visually looked at the items that could kill me/us. I moved the controls for free and correct movement, flaps set and visually confirmed with the indicator, trim set and visually checked against the indicator, no lights (red or orange), seat locked . Sure, these same items are in the Pre-taxi, Taxi, Before Takeoff checklist but late night, fatigue, complacency, circadian rhythm out of phase have downed pilots better than me.

[jherrod]

Breaks my heart. So sad. I had a trim do that in a C182 2 miles off coast over Atlantic Ocean at night off Palm Beach. The trim got stuck in the nose up attitude due to AP error. I had to muscle the plane level and then pull the fuse and then yank on the manual trim. The panic was real. The muscle needed to correct it in a 182 was intense. Can’t imagine a twin of that size. Thank you for your reports. They are so valuable.

[acirinelli]

Juan, once as a student pilot (with my instructor ) I set the trim for take off, but as soon as we lifted off we pitched up significantly more than expected and it took tremendous forward pressure to maintain proper pitch. I indicated to my instructor that something was wrong, he then set the trim based on how it felt at that point, right as we were climbing out, which then indicated significant nose down trim. After landing and close examination, we discovered that the indicator was just completely wrong/broken. I learned from that point to check the trim tab position vs what the indicator is showing as part of preflight.

[paulschroeder]

I met Natalie once a couple of weeks before the accident. I had toured her through the Western Canada Aviation Museum. She was an incredibly interesting individual who already had accomplished a great deal in her short life.

[TootSocialTV]

AFAIK, Natalie was not a social media "influencer", nor did she have any YouTube channel. If anything, her social media presence was limited to her landscape photography. Not flying. She was a very energetic, strong, quiet and hard working woman who lived in reality, not virtually. She was respected as an arctic and wilderness guide, a bush pilot and flew for Kenn Borek Air. Google her and tell me you are not impressed with her accomplishments. And the love and respect her co-workers, clients and friends had for her. Runaway trim, or skipping the checklist for trim on takeoff are both possibilities. I've had the electric trim runaway on take off in a Twin Comanche. Almost killed me. Disclosure: I didn't know her but did take the time to Google her. What an impressive person. And a tragedy.

[petertravers]

Navajo operator here. My tips on trimming the PA31. The checklist gets you to check the trim 3 times before takeoff… for a reason. Always check trim tab position during preflight, it is pretty obvious if it is not neutral. Never trust the indicator, roll all the way forward and then 3 full turns back for take off. Rolling the electric trim back in the flare is just sloppy flying. Depending on autopilot installed, it can roll the trim back if left on while on the ground. If you weren’t the last one to fly it or it has been in the workshop… be aware.

[nw]

Many moons ago I was flying a Piper Seneca ll and on a take-off just after lift off I used the electric trim switch on the column to trim nose up slightly as I became airborne. The electric switch on the control column stuck and continued to trim to near full nose up. As the nose pitched up the controller noticed I was in trouble and cleared me to land any runway. I was too busy to respond. Fortunately I was able to use a combination of the manual trim wheel and the electric switch to trim nose down and was able to recover before stalling the aircraft 500ft off the runway from a very steep climb. It required all my strength pushing the column forward at the time. Then it got worse. The electric trim switch I used again (stupid move) now stuck and continued trimming in the nose down position. Again all my strength to pull the nose up to a level position and this time with the other hand on the manual trim was able to recover and I took up the controllers suggestion and landed on a separate runway causing the go-around of a B-767 which was on final. On the Seneca the breaker switches were the type you cannot pull. The Navajo has breakers you can pull. My advice is know where the breaker is on the trim actuator. I'm thinking this accident may be a similar situation I encountered and I'm not sure if the accident investigators could tell if she had a runaway trim on take off. The accident site revealed the elevator screw trimmed back but not how it got there IMHO.

[skar]

Years ago we had a PA31T that had up pitch on TO. The pilot got it under control with electric trim. The problem was the trim indicator had slipped showing TO when it obviously wasn’t. He was stout guy and said it took about all he had to keep it under control.

[spencerrs-eg]

I love the content this channel brings but I have to speak up as a professional airline pilot of 36 years and roughly 23, 000 hours. (Former military pilot and rotary wing as well). The NTSB has not put out a final report and I am surprised that Juan would "suggest" that this accident was, or may have been caused by not following the checklist - and reading the thread many have grabbed onto this idea when "None of us" actually know the cause yet, not even the NTSB. As many who have flown this type of aircraft have stated in this thread, they doubt the trim would be in the full aft position from the previous landing. Those that have flown this aircraft also point out that the aircraft has a history of trim indication and other problems, including runaways. If I were to "speculate", and that is all it is, had the trim been in the full aft position at take-off, the crash would have happened right over the runway, or at least on the airport property shortly after lift-off. The fact that the aircraft appeared to level off at roughly 200', suggests to me that that is where the problem first began, likely with the first input of trim after take-off as usually happens when the pilot can first feel the plane and fine tune the trim for the actual weight and balance of the aircraft. With that first input of trim if the contactor inside the switch stuck it would continue to run away. At that point where the aircraft was still close to normal trim and aerodynamic forces she was able to physically have enough strength to push the control column forward to level off and fight the runaway trim. But as the trim system continued to run aft it would have been impossible for most pilots, (men included), to fight the increasing aerodynamic forces. Hence the aircraft started a steep climb, and losing speed. With the loss of speed and the engines at high power, and the "Thrust line" being right of center on both these engines for a Navajo, (correct me if I am wrong for this AC), the lift for the wings would be shifted to the right of both engines. This would cause the barrel rolling to the left with the lowering speed. (Plus the torque of the engines).
The trim is checked at least two or three times prior to take-off, and should have been looked at during the walk-around for this type and size of aircraft. I highly doubt she would have missed the trim 3 times, and from what I have heard about Natalie, she sounded like a professional pilot, not a "Hop in and let's go type". And with only 22 hours on this aircraft, and flying it single pilot, I'd bet she was checking things more than once. And from what I have seen flying with female pilots, they tend to be more cautious than many of us male pilots. Hopefully the NTSB will be able to find the cause for this accident, but for this size of aircraft and no FDR, (Flight Data Recorder), we may never know for sure what happened.
Now for those and their speculations and comments about female pilots and the number of crashes here on Youtube, think "algorithms", where Youtube pushes certain videos and subjects to the top. I have no idea what the stats are, but I know some awesome female pilots. Heck, just look at the SouthWest 737 that had the engine blow up last year, with shrapnel from that engine piercing the cabin and also causing an explosive decompression. Two major startling unrelated failures at the same time. And it was an amazing female Captain that saved the day on that flight. Now I want to hear her story!

[robertscott]

I looked her up. She was an amazing woman full of life and what happened to her terrible. Hate to see when people die young and have so much to left to give to the world.

[theprof]

Every checklist, every item, every time!!

[GC-jhuf]

This nearly happened to me in a C172 during the long cross-country flight for my PPL more than 20 years ago. Landed (trim up) and thought I could do the pre-take off checklist from memory. Launched, pitched up suddenly but was able to muscle nose down before stall. Fixed trim and knew what an idiotic mistake I'd made. I've been very big about checklists ever since. Real lesson for me in that mistake. Be careful out there and watch those bad attitudes —— the mental ones. I feel so sorry for this poor pilot.

[TroyHoffman-m]

I spent alot of hours in the PA31s. My right knee ALWAYS was in contact with the trim wheel. ALWAYS. Had a Piper Aire autopilot that went uncommanded full nose up in cruise. I was able to alert the passengers before uncoupling. Also had a nose up trim runaway after rotation in a Chieftian coming out of Joliet, IL at gross weight. Pulled the breaker but it still took all my strength to keep it from stalling. My advice: positive contact with trim wheel and know where pitch trim breaker is without looking....in every aircraft with electric trim.

[triggerpointtechnology]

I’ve got a couple thousand hours in the Chieftain flying freight and passengers. Highest regards for the aircraft. However I do not remember trimming during flare to minimize yoke force. Trimming during flap schedule sure. Our one airplane airline hired a new pilot who, on his FIRST FLIGHT topped the tanks, filled every seat plus baggage and attempted a takeoff out of Prescott. There was an elevator issue that was unknown whereby the elevator travel stop screw had backed out limiting forward yoke travel to something less than full travel.
With the excessive load and aft cg the new hire did his usual 80 knot rotation and as soon as he selected gear up was flying an aircraft he could not control. The nose rose uncontrollably and evidently could not reverse the trend. Rather than put the gear back down and try and land, he opted to chop power and pancaked off the side of the runway around a power pole, fully 1, 500 feet from the end of the runway.
Injuries galore but no fatalities, even when the tanks ruptured.
Airline folded. Desert Pacific Airlines gone.
There were only 3 pilots, me, the chief pilot and the new hire. So my brief but glorious domicile in Sedona Arizona came to an end.

[oliversibbs]

I am currently in training for my PPL . This very thing happened to me. I normally train in Cessna Skyhawks with G1000 avionics. Most of them have manual trim. On the day of my second solo I was given a newer Skyhawk with electric trim, that has a toggle button on the yoke. I did my run up as normal, got take off clearance and proceeded to do my take off roll. All of a sudden my plane prematurely nosed up. Startled the heck out of me. This plane was forcefully pointing itself up and my airspeed was decaying rapidly. I applied all the force I could muster forcing the nose down. I had no idea what was happening initially until I was cleared to my first turn from upwind that I realized I was trimmed all the way up. I corrected the trim and that literally saved me . Scarry situation. I am sure its worse in a twin engine aircraft.

[DanSulyma]

Your accident reports are a great service to the loved ones of those who’ve perished in these accidents. I’ve lost a few friends in helicopter and airplane accidents over the years but have only had the scuttle butt as to there causes never anything near an official report. How I wish you and the resources that you rely upon had been around at the time but very grateful that you are here at this moment in time to help those survivors of the victims of these incidents understand what has caused they’re accident.
Thank you Juan

[tondog]

Also a good habit to note the location of your trim and AP breaker prior to takeoff. Its part of my run up checklist. Especially if you rent, it could be in a different spot than last time...

[mikeL]

Thanks for covering this! This is the airport I fly from (as a passenger), my sister actually watched the plane go down from her desk at work.

[rustyheckler]

No matter how experienced you are, no matter how many years you have been doing a thing, you are not above or beyond making a mistake.

[justinjwolf]

A veteran CFI taught me the "7-up" flow for both Before Takeoff and Before Landing that works amazingly well in a lot of planes. You start at the far left, move to the center, and go to the floor and cover switches, flaps, gear, throttle quadrant, trims, and tank selectors. I ended up doing this before startup and before shutdown as well. If you check the trim this many times, it's unlikely you'll be surprised by it when the action starts.