Paul's Story in Romans 9 with Dr. Jonathan Williams | Leighton Flowers | Soteriology 101

Dr. Leighton Flowers is joined by Dr. Jonathan Williams, Author of Paul's Story In Romans 9.


Or @soteriology101 on Twitter

Please SHARE on Facebook and Twitter and help spread the word!

Thanks for watching.

#Leighton Flowers #Predestination #Calvinism #Provisionism #Calvinist #Salvation

[CorgiGirl]

Hello Leighton
Greetings to you from Selby in North Yorkshire, England.
I have a testimony. A testimony about coming out of Calvinism.
I know my experience will be similar to many, but I’m sending you this correspondence as a way of thanking you. It wasn’t always going to be a thank you!! I had you on you tube subscription on and off a few times. I used to listen to parts of your videos and then angrily turned them off and unsubscribed you, because your videos were opposing and against my 30 year held belief of Calvinism. I was saved in a Calvinistic church over 30 years ago. At that time I didn’t even know anything about soteriology, other than I knew I was born again. It wasn’t a church where Calvinism was flaunted at all, and the gospel of good news was preached readily. I had to leave that church when we moved home. I ended up, again unaware, that I was in a Calvinistic, reformed church. However about eight years ago, I felt the need to change church again, due to the gospel call, not being preached regularly enough. I always knew the gospel call was what brought people to Christ, and was surprised to see a lack of it in this church, my later studies, however made it clear to me, why the gospel call is not really a feature of many Calvinistic churches. However, I’ve had a wonderful Christian friend for over ten years, who, although we were in the same church, did not believe in the Calvinistic definition of predestination.
Anyway, we went to a Gypsy and travellers church together, of which there are many in the UK. The whole Life and Light Gypsy movement is Arminian. Here we started to hear the total opposite to what we had believed. Partial depravity, conditional election, unlimited atonement, resistible Grace etc. My friend was able to take to this theology far better than I did. In fact it made me dig further and deeper into my Calvinistic theology, which made me feel safe, because I thought God had chosen me for salvation, and He couldn’t be wrong so I was secure. It was then that I decided I was at the wrong church and went back to the Calvinistic church I’d left a couple of years earlier. I bought a John MacArthur study bible and only ever listened to you tube videos by MacArthur, Sproul, Alistair Begg, Baucham etc etc. I would turn anyone off who I realised wasn’t preaching Calvinistically. I used to listen to the questions and answers with John MacArthur and Steven Lawson etc and think yes, this is correct. However it was the persistence of my friend, who wouldn’t accept double predestination, that made me listen to other explanations for the five points of Calvinism. At first, I would go to her house and she would put me one of your videos on, and I would take my John Mac study bible, open it up, and refute all your explanations using John Mac. However, despite all that, I used to come home and listen to you again. I bought another Bible, which had no Calvinistic notes in it. I started again from the beginning. I have to say it was difficult at first, I even found it difficult understanding what you were trying to explain at first, so heavily indoctrinated I was. However, slowly and after many many hours of video and study I began to see there was a different interpretation. All those uncomfortable texts and difficult passages, which as a Calvinist, I had to deal with, began to mean something different. A new pastor came to the church a year ago. We welcomed him in of course. He has proved to be a staunch Calvinist. One sermon about six months ago, he was making it very clear that everything yes everything was pre determined by God. A young lady in the church who had sadly been raped when she was younger and trafficked to USA for sex when she was 16, found it very difficult to be told that the Lord she loved and turned to and believed was her protector now, was in fact the one who had planned all this horror for her in advance. The pastor explained (what I now know is compatabilistic determinism) that God had planned it, but it was man’s free will that made him do this to her. He then went on to forward her the Confessions of Faith explaining number 3 would make it clear for her!!! Well at this stage, when after 30 years it actually became clear to me the whole and full implications of Augustinian Calvinistic theology. It’s taken me another six months to know now I am not a Calvinist any more. I feel as though I could put up a good rebuttal now to all the points of tulip.
The lady in question was shaken for a while, but doesn’t believe that explanation the pastor gave her, but she remains in the church. For the past few months I’ve realised that the god of Calvin is not the God of the bible. I see error in the sermons. Perhaps worst of all, the congregation are not really bible readers, they have no real concept of the doctrines of Grace, other than they believe they’ve been chosen and can’t lose their salvation. So I’m again on a dilemma. Whilst I know you have said it might be all right to stay in a Calvinistic church, in reality when you’ve studied and studied as I have, then it’s so apparent there is little in common for a non Calvinist in a Calvinist church. In fact it’s really starting to prickle me when I hear the preaching. Last week the pastor quoted John 3:16 in his sermon, but knowing he doesn’t really truly believe it, I found it deceptive. It is true many churches are stealth Calvinistic, and unless you know what they are saying and can understand their definitions such as Sovereignty, then you can be sat there not knowing what the leadership really believe. So here I am. I may go back to the Gypsy church that my friend remains at. I know that Arminianism and Provisionism do believe some different things, but I think I may go back there. The worship and praise is so joyful. The church is alive with expectation. I’ve also listened to all Steve Greggs on his refuting Calvinism and his and your discussions with James White and Idol killer and Faith on Fire and many many others. I’m relieved to know the truth. I just wanted to thank you for your extremely clear teachings.

[solochristo]

This is a really great discussion that needs to be hammered on constantly for people to understand Paul, that he was not an ivory tower theologian out to write a systematic theology, but a churchman with "boots on the ground" so to speak who was dealing with practical matters in the church, i.e. the Judaizers, and that Paul is very long-winded and picks up on some arguments later in certain books and often takes many chapters to make a single point. And that we cannot take part of Paul's argument for making a broader point, for example Romans 3:10-18, and assume he is trying to establish a doctrine. In short, this entire discussion needs to be condensed and hammered home constantly so that Christians can fully understand the problems Paul is dealing with and the points he's making. It is exactly by ignoring all of this proper context that one takes away Calvinism from the text.

[KevinEDF]

Thank you so much for what you are doing with this channel. I appreciate it more than words can say.
I firmly believe that Calvinism is incorrect after 20 years of verse by verse teaching but amoung all of the prominent calvanist teachers, it can become very tiring to hear a different heart of God taught as fact.
Your gentleness and firmness of defending the love of God is such an encouragement to me. Praying for you, Kevin

[obrien]

1:03:33 This is the same exact claim Calvinism is making with “limited atonement/Jesus only died for some people.” It’s not the Gospel.

“If anybody is a heretic teaching a false doctrine it would be somebody who doesn’t believe the Gospel is for everybody but only for the Jewish people” well said Leighton.

[EnHacore]

Very good conversation, I wish brother Williams would have taken 15 to walk us thru the story form beginning to end, just to have a summary of it. Would recommend to invite him back.

[clarkl]

❤ plenty of important insights into God's word! Thanks so much 🎉

[mickknight]

Good word. Romans 9 can't be rightly understood apart from 10 & 11. It is clear anyone can get right with God through faith in Jesus. No one has to go to Hell. And yes, there was no "calvinism' or 'arminianism' thinking in their minds! God elects for service, never for salvation. Very clear & plain reading of the text. Sounds like a good book. ☝️

[tedfordhyde]

Very enlightening! Brings a lot of light on the passages.

[gracemercywrath]

Great episode. This book will be a great blessing to the body of Christ!

[gracebest]

How come people rarely read the adjacent verse: Rom 9:12  she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”  Rom 9:13  As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” 
The OLDER will Serve the YOUNGER. Not the Older we be damned and younger to be saved but the verse ONLY says.... Older will SERVE the younger.

[austinh]

“Grace and faith are not antonyms but grace and works are antonyms. Faith is always implied there when we are talking about the grace of God.” Dr. Jonathan Williams on Romans 11:5
min 1:16:00

[cherylaguilar]

Thank you Leighton and Jonathan! I am waiting for Jonathan's book to arrive!

[AlexanderosD]

Good discussion, and thanks to Dr. Johnathan Williams.
Amazing how "Leightonism" was in effect even while you were in the cradle! 😂

Biblical election:
God takes people and nations out of the world, and providentially works through them to fulfill a purpose.

Calvinism's version of election: a naive presumption that each individual is a God picked lucky salvation lottery winner.

[gavinadams]

Amazing, that all the families of the earth will be blessed through the seed of Abraham, to see how God blessed esau and ishmael as a foreshadow of the Gospel to the gentiles?

[bobbyadkins]

This right here is incredibly important in helping us understand Romans 9 about the Potter and the clay, and the vessels of mercy and of wrath. It plainly teaches the conditions of each type of vessel. It also teaches that a vessel of mercy can become a vessel of wrath and the other way around as well.
Jeremiah 18:1-10
[1]The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
[2]Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
[3]Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
[4]And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
[5]Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
[6]O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
[7]At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
[8]If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
[9]And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
[10]If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

[asniceful]

I learned this from Pastor Adrian Rogers that hate does not always mean "...unto condemnation..." One of the scriptures he cited was that below that it can also means not preferred. Obviously Jesus is not saying we should actually hate our family. Hence Jacob I loved, Esau I hated is not choice for salvation and condemnation. Jacob has been preferred over Esau for the promise of "...through your seed, the whole world will be blessed."

Luke 14:26 (NKJV) "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

[lawrencereeves]

Please have Dr. Williams back on again! I’m halfway though his book and it’s the best I’ve ever read. His writing is incredibly easy to follow and makes it click for me.

[loleki]

This is so helpful! Thank you, gentlemen.

[kevinburtnick]

Hello, Brother Leighton,

Would you kindly consider guiding us through the Romans Road approach to salvation? Your articulation is greatly appreciated, and it aligns well with your ministry. We would be grateful if you could explore this topic. Thank you for your ministry.

God bless you and your family.

[brentlay]

An important consideration is the fact that Paul is speaking directly to the Gentiles about Israel. He was explaining how it was fair for God to choose a remnant or only part of Israel as the elect. It is very important to note Paul continued to quote the Old Testament which consistently upheld a portion of Israel as the elect. At least that is the way I interpret Romans 9.