GATES Subaru Timing Kits: BUYER BEWARE!

A routine timing belt replacement on this 2010 Subaru Legacy turns into an investigation of why this Gates timing component kit TCK304 includes substandard parts...

The answers that I get are not encouraging...so buyer beware!

[Trashhauler]

I installed a Gates kit on my STi. I was only aware of their reputation for quality and didn't look deeper at things. The tensioner failed at 800km and destroyed a rebuilt engine. Broke the piston in the number 4 cylinder. Gates stopped replying after I sent them photos of the tensioner. Unfortunately for me I had purchased the kit over a year earlier. I am now getting ready to install another engine and this one has a factory Subaru tensioner on it.
Unless the Chinese have someone looking over their shoulder the whole time they will cut corners and make crap.

[tolvibman]

File a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, include a link to this video and we'll see what gates has to say then.

[mrfester]

As an older guy who is NOT a mechanic I'm impressed with you, as a young man, having the awareness AND more importantly the integrity to refuse to install the parts in question. If it was an alternator belt or a spark plug maybe it wouldn't be as big a deal if there was a failure sometime down the road but with these timing belt related parts the potential damage that could be done could be catastrophic in terms of what that damage might cost to fix AND the length of time the vehicle could be disabled while going through repairs.
I'm old school and grew up in a different time. If this exact scenario took place 50 years ago I'm almost certain that the Gates Rep would have stood on his head in a corner to make things right with you, the customer, in order not to lose you as a customer. The fact that he was so indifferent when you said you would never buy Gates stuff again is the kind of thing I can just never get used to because I've faced this type of thing countless times with different kinds of products and services I've had problems with in my later years.
This VERY scenario is a good illustration and symptom of the problems this country faces and the thing is that as older people fade into the background and younger people raised in a different age take over "the system" they just fail to see the warning signs of a system that is starting to fail.
Another sign is that most young people who read my post here will just dismiss it out of hand as the nonsense ramblings of an older person who is out of touch. They have no interest in anyone's time earned wisdom. They haven't been raised to see the value in it and as time passes they will pay a higher price because of this blindness then I ever will.
It's just like the story of the boiled frog! (look it up.)
Great video!
Thank You!

[keithatkinson]

Both customer services gave very bad service I don't know about other parts of the world but where I am info on the packaging is legally required to be accurate. I am an engineer and have had a number of instances where Chinese bearings have been responsible for significant downtime and a huge loss of revenue for my company that far outweighed the cheaper cost and in almost all cases they were passed off as higher quality items from other countries. I will draught a recommendation for group consideration that they cease to use Gates parts immediately. Many thanks Ivan for the heads up.

[SouthMainAuto]

Made in China and put in the box in Japan... hmmm

[gregp]

im not even mad that its made in china, but what pisses me off is that they wrote on the box where each individual part is made. thats false advertisement.

[humidbeing]

I always get Aisin kits. A little more but always use the proper NTN/Koyo parts.

[garageguychris]

I have done a couple Subaru's with the Aisin Kits. With these kits the tensioners use the same bearings as OEM, the belt is a Mitsuboshi which is also OEM. the water pumps are Aisin brand and are nicer made than OEM, afterall Aisin is a OEM for toyota. Seriously worth checking out if your doing these...

[rsage_]

Depending on how long Gates has been doing this, it could very likely be considered fraud; especially if Gates knew or had reason to have known that consumers relied on Gates to provide OE components. This could amount to a class-action suit if Gates purposefully kept making boxes for these kits which continued to have the marking of "made in Japan, " although made elsewhere. If this video gets some traction, Gates might start scrambling.

[nopenner]

One very important thing that needs to be said about the new Gates kits is regarding the belt tensioner. I have used the old "made in Japan" tensioners and OEM Subaru tensioners. Most of them have had bleed down issues before the engine has even run. We used to install an aluminum wedge to prevent the belt jumping during shipping. It should noted that I have built hundreds of Subaru engines over the last 20 years. For the record, there were more issues with the OEM tensioners than the Gates.
While everyone seems to focus on the Chinese bearings in the pulleys, the fact that the new tensioners are Canadian made and are very robust design, with a much thicker plunger, and better seal design. When using the Canadian made tensioner, I am able to turn the engine backwards immediately after installation with no deflection.
Best course is to replace the top right idler with OEM and just replace the bearings in the toothed idler with quality bearings (cheap at most supply houses).

[rhkips]

I had a similar problem with a Cloyes timing chain kit several years back, which included a non-OEM tensioner assembly with a flawed design, which resulted in chain slap at idle. Unlike that Gates rep, the Cloyes tech took the time to troubleshoot with me to find the problem, then overnighted me an entire new kit at no cost, which he personally hand-picked and inspected prior to shipping. Needless to say, I buy a lot of Cloyes products whenever I can!

[ur_a_buS]

Aisin FTW! I did SO MUCH research to figure out what brands would be good aftermarket/oem timing belt kits. You helped SO MUCH in making my decision to avoid Gates. I'm sorry you had to go through this and hats off to you for refusing to install questionable parts.

[brizzle]

Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I have used Gates products and Aisen on my Subs....but no more Gates. That is false advertising, and underhanded, and deceptive like you stated in the video. I work on cars all the time and refuse to use Chinese products/parts even though some are decent. Gates get the picture....you lost a customer.

[comfortlivinghh]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I used to fix my own cars very often. The Gate brand was one of my favor but it won't be anymore.

[IkeandMike]

Dang, was all set to buy a Gates timing belt kit for my Subaru. Just removed it from my Amazon shopping list. Thanks motoYam82!

[HUBBABUBBADOOPYDOOP]

*BAIT AND SWITCH*             (Non-refundable if you open the plastic and see how deceitful we are)

[Chewie]

Hey Ivan, thanks for making all these videos! I was just about to buy a Gates kit for my Impreza but after seeing this I went with the Aisin TKF-001 kit instead. Haven't installed it yet but based on the contents I can recommend it. All parts have made in Japan stamped on them (except belt made in USA):

Aisin WPF-002 water pump (includes gasket)
NTN ATU106J-1 tensioner (This is identical to the one in your Gates kit. I can see from the video that although the castings don't match, the small part number written around the tensioner cylinder is the same between this one and the OEM one you took out)
NSK ZA-59TB0515 toothed idler
NSK ZA-60TB0693 smooth idler
Koyo IF-001K smooth idler
Mitsubishi CD304 belt

Just sharing if anyone is wondering what else is available :)

[pfsmith]

Great video, thanks for posting... What I have learned from this is that I need to work on my people skills, I think that I would have been rather toxic on the phone, which wouldn't have gotten me any further. I admire your composure.

[southpawscientific]

Thanks for posting this; luckily, I saw this early in my research to replace my timing belt and did more digging. I ended up getting an Aisin kit to avoid any shenanigans.

[NewLevelAuto]

3 people watching this video work for Gates . Nice catch Ivan