ARE EUROPEAN DRIVERS ACTUALLY BETTER? Opinions on European Drivers in American Series

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I recently had a comment on a video that basically said "Europeans who have gone to America have done well, but those who have come here have flopped", to which a follow up comment was "because European drivers are better"

But is that actually the case? Because if you look at how few ex-F1 drivers have gone to America and NOT won the Indycar title, it puts a dent in the whole "Euro better, Indy drivers bad" mantra.

So... Is it just elitism?

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I've always figured it was because of the sheer variety of sports available in the USA, as well as the USA's more self sustaining ecosystem. An American born athlete doesn't really have to travel out of their country to find work. There are a ton of successful motorsports in the USA such as the various Nascar series; Indycar; jr open wheel series like Formula Atlantic; Imsa; sprint cars; etc. Not to mention the other very popular leagues such as NBA; NFL; MLB; NHL; MLS; or even the PGA. The reason I bring these all up is that I feel there is a mindset amongst many Americans (I'm Canadian, for reference) that one doesn't have to travel outside the USA for much of anything. Why spend ludicrous amounts of money finding a career in motorsport in Europe, when there are a ton of viable & cheaper sports available right at home?

a.rogers
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The main reason for the discrepancy is the fact that a lot more European drivers feel tempted to race Indy than there are Americans wanting to be in F1. In Indy, you can get in a car. Any car, and you can compete. Whereas in F1, let’s face it, 99% of drivers get one or two years in a shitbox car, they finish last because they’re in a shitbox, and then they get replaced with someone else because they “couldn’t get results”. I mean, if I had the choice between racing for wins in Indycar for the next 15 years vs spending two seasons at Haas fighting my teammate for 19th place, I know which one I’d choose.

ImInLoveWithBulla
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Hey now. The fact I was already holding my AR15 doesn’t mean anything 😂

nicklastname
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One thing I *really* wish IndyCar did a better job of is promoting its developmental drivers. They have a pretty standard ladder system (US2000, US2000Pro, IndyLights, IndyCar) that HAS produced great drivers, but only the hardest of hardcore fans know anything about it.

mrterp
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As an European and Swiss bloke, I think good drivers can come from all origins and parts of the world... if they have enough money, unfortunately. If not, they're screwed.

wanderingfirbolg
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What it really comes down to is that the best drivers go where the money is, and in the US that's NASCAR. Instead of growing up doing karting and Formula Renault/Formula 3000/GP3/formula 4/whatever, they do quarter midgets and sprint cars and late models and build a different skill set. By the time they're in their 20s and well-enough known for people to want to compare them to European drivers those skills are set, the neurons are less plastic, and they're "too old" to compete at the top level. The same goes the other way, European drivers who try to run NASCAR rarely do well.

While I personally have little interest in watching NASCAR, I have huge respect for the drivers who do it. It's no more "just turning left" than an F1 race is a Sunday drive down a twisty road.

IanMcCloghrie
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Fun fact. Lake Speed, a nascar driver, beat Ayrton Senna in the work Karting Title in 1978. Most of the time drivers just want to stay in America, even when they have the chance to go race in European series.

SadMarinersFan
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Drivers from usa have an endless amount of racing categories to choose from a young age. I couldn't being to start to name them all. Us in Europe have only 2 rally or karting which leads to f1, gt etc and very easy for us the know who is very good. Very difficult to judge who is the best in the USA.

colmancorkery
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As an American I don’t care about different race series, I just wanna see cars going fast and batting. Road America is one of the best tracks and it has right turns but there’s also a reason why Indy is an amazing track even though it has four left turns. If every track was Monaco and every track Spa it’d be too boring. Just show differences between extremes of tracks and I think the racing is cool. Like Martinsville vs Talladega what a cool juxtaposition.

Kev-O
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Funny you mention it, honestly I think Super Formula is one of the most difficult single seater series out there for foreign drivers. Nick Cassidy was the last foreign series winner and Lotterer was the last European to win the series outright, whilst Palou got close. However we've seen drivers like Ticktum who has done okay in F2 get absolutely stomped on in SF. Even Pato O'Ward didn't manage more than a solitary P6.
It may just be down to it being a foreign environment with several veteran drivers of the sport and ex-F1 talent to boot, but it certainly seems to have been the toughest to break into over the last ten years or so imo.

Edit: Forgot that Pierre Gasly came just half a point away from the title in 2017 too, with Rosenqvist not far behind.

Amber_Hawkins
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I feel like since all the major internationally recognized Motorsports are across the pond, American drivers aren’t usually exposed to the same opportunities to compete as European drivers, then again there are successful drivers from South American countries so maybe North American drivers don’t care as much because of nascar and Indy car and imsa which are pretty big over here

edgiestofcars
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You layed it out perfectly for us: the best drivers are the ones we PERCEIVE to be winning "the best" motorsport. A lot of people forget Kimi tried NASCAR, and didn't do all that well...

jason
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Mark Webber said if Will Power made it to F1 he would have been remembered as the greatest Australian driver, the problem was he was so broke he never got the opportunity.

nickb
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Depends on what you are looking for in a driver. The Typical young aspiring driver in America doesn’t want to race in F1 or Indycar. It’s NASCAR. America’s development system pushes drivers in that direction, i.e, midgets, sprint cars, super stock, late models, modifieds. Running a 900 HP Sprint Car is cheaper than running a kart. And that’s where the elite talent ends up. Even guys like Josef Newgarden have expressed interest in NASCAR. And the type of driving required to drive in NASCAR is so different that anything in F1 or Indycar, we have seen guys like Kimi Raikkonen, Jacques Villeneuve, Dario Franchitti, Sam Hornish, and Juan Montoya fail horribly at it.

One not better than the other. Just different. If you make it big in NASCAR or F1, you’re making millions easily considering that are the two highest paid forms of racing.

jeremythurman
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I mean the dig at Grosjean is a bit unfair considering he almost got rookie of the year competing in less races (even the Indy 500 which gives double points) cuz he only raced one oval. If they had raced the same amount of races Grosjean would definitely have won rookie of the year.

rewp
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Imo it comes down to previous experience. Coming up through the feeder series European drivers are primed for the European/ F1 style situation, whilst North American drivers are primed to their own situation. This says nothing about the skills of these drivers, but it tells you a lot about where they actually spent their formative experiences. Skilled drivers will be fast in any given class if, and only if, they can incorporate the idiosyncrasies of those new classes. Some will do so quickly, some will do slowly and some will never get the chance because of not living up to hype generated in vastly differing classes or just having a bad car at the right moment.

TheShrike
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One big different attitude at the top level of open wheel racing between Europe and the US is evident at the paddock - Indycar paddocks are totally open, fans can get ridiculously close to the cars, chat with the drivers before a practice or race or qualifying, etc. F1 keeps things very sequestered and, for lack of a better term, posh.

As far as the actual sport is concerned? Different disciplines and different cars and different drivers. It’s possible to like and appreciate all of it without saying any one discipline is better than any other. F1 for being a bonkers high speed drama with ridiculous engineering, Indycar for its display of driver talent in mostly equal cars, NASCAR for the strategy and pushing of the limit especially in pack racing. Stadium Super Trucks for the ridiculous spectacle and just plain fun of motorsports.

mkozachek
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As an American, I bout choked on my cheeseburger in complete laughter at that joke.

jamesstewart
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I agree Senna was the fastest driver ever. However, he failed to adhere to the axiom of 'to finish first you must first finish'. I believe he would only have 1 WDC without the then throw-out races. There is only one qualified person who has seen ALL racers from 1950, Sir Jackie Stewart. He says Fangio and Clark were the best. I started watching F1 from the Hill/Stewart era.

daveblock
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I think access, training and culture play a huge role in this and the situation is more complicated than it seems on the surface. Access to training and the racing culture of Europe play a huge role in this equation. As an American Formula One fan since the year 2000 I have watched many many Grand Prix over the years. The racing training is better in Europe and the culture is wired to win. The pressure is much higher in Europe and once the European drivers make their way to the American series all of that training and experience gained in more of a pressure cooker environment gives them an advantage. European drivers are not inherently better than American drivers. They just have access to better tools that make them overall better racers. As I said access to better training and a more hardened racing culture.

The sport of basketball is a great example. Since the American Dream Team in '92 interest in the sport worldwide has gone through the roof. The NBA invested time and money across the world to grow the game and now in many ways the rest of the world has caught up to America in a sport we once dominated (relatively speaking we kicked ass in the latest Olympics lol). My point is now the rest of the world now has access, training and a strong basketball culture. This proves Americans are not inherently better than the world at basketball, for years we just had better access to tools that made us better. The same can be said for Europeans and motor racing.

ToneRetroGaming