The Vicious Circle of Total Depravity - Answering Calvinism

Jordan talks with @IdolKiller about the doctrine of total depravity in Calvinism

[thetygerpulpitwithpastorglenn]

If that was the doctrine of Total Depravity you might have a point.

[billowspillow]

In my experience, Calvinists will say that’s what total depravity is until they get backed into a logical corner. Then they say, “you don’t understand total depravity.”

[brettk]

I am not a Calvinist, but this is not a good argument at all.

[In_Search_Of_Speed]

If they've been Regenerated Your Victious circle becomes broken. They are now truly seeking God with The help of The Holy Spirit

[cordsman]

The Spirit of God opens the eyes of individuals to rightly understand the spiritual truths contained in His word. One does not understand how totally depraved we are if they are not born again of the Spirit of God. We must have our eyes opened by the Spirit of God in order to see how sinful we are. You are correct, in that natural man does not rightly understand spiritual truth and therefore does not rightly understand total depravity or the sinfulness of man or the sinfulness of sin. However, one who has had their eyes enlightened by the Spirit of Yahweh and can understand and interpret His scriptures with the help of the Spirit is able to understand spiritual truths, including the truth of the totally depraved nature of man.

[koraegis]

This behavior is depicted as depraved.

[machine]

creates his own authority and uses it to shut down any counterarguments.

[spencerhalpin]

Every english professor was once a baby that didn't have the ability to understand english. And without a third party (in this case the world the baby grew up in) the child would never have of their own devices learned english.

I thank God your short films are very well done and encouraging. Lord bless brother.

[timothy]

The assumption here is that the Christian quoting 1 Corinthians 2:14 to the open theist has no spiritual understanding. Wrong assumption since the believer has been made brand new (2 Corinthians 5:17) because He's been born again by God (John 1:13). This is a bad, unconvincing argument.

[jtbtdlkt]

because God did a supernatural work in that person to give them spiritual sight and discernment. That should be Christianity 101 good sir.

[marahaquala]

They also believe that you're not able to discern right from wrong in any context, not just spiritually.

[jacobgustafson]

What ever happened to God loves the sinner but hates the sin? That’s the God that I worship and pray to

[TONyjustRoCks]

Yes and I think it's a sufficient rebuttal to Warren's argument as far as I can tell. Even if Calvinists believed they were literal wooden chairs, regeneration would still be enough to elevate and endow their faculties with spiritual capability as long as God says it does such a thing.

For Warren's argument to succeed, he'd have to show Scripturally that regeneration doesn't endow them with this capability to overcome even something like TD.

Though I could see it as a commentary on how even a nonbeliever can *think* they're regenerated yet be deluded due to TD.

[martytu]

There is a better case for Calvinists to be semi-gnostics than there is for Provisionists to be semi-Pelagians. There is no other way a Calvinist who claims to be regenerated to understand spiritual truths to avoid being a gnostic.

[g-manthenurseman]

When Adam sinned, he died…Spiritually. His body didn’t die, and his soul didn’t die. The soul (mind, will, emotions) goes when we die physically, either to heaven or hell depending on whether our spirt is alive in Christ or remains dead in our trespasses and sin.

So…we inherited a dead spirit, that needs to be made right with God, and we have the ability to choose with our “chooser” (the will that God, in His infinite wisdom, power and sovereignty, created us with), to put our faith in Him. Like it or not, that’s how God, as the Sovereign of the universe, set it up.

He created us to love us. That’s why we’re here. That’s what He wants. A God who IS love, IS just, and IS holy cares more about those things than he does about supposedly getting glory from any of His creation going to eternal torment. He doesn’t pull wings of flies just to watch them suffer while He floats about His power. Doesn’t do that to His created beings that are in His own image either.

[alphainka]

I am not a calvinist but I don't think that argument is correct.
The natural man can not understand the things of the spirit. ( I would say that is total depravity). He needs God to give him light, and then he responds. God has to kick start them.

[Deakon]

Reading the Bible without prejudice is good for believers, doctrines are suppose to HELP us understanding the Bible, instead of twisting it for the doctrines.

[lawrencestanley]

This bit of idiocy coming from Warren assumes that there is no remedy for man's born condition, but, because he doesn't know the scriptures, he has not read in 1 John 5:20 that "we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true..."

[PonyboyCurtisV]

My Ex Calvinistic "Pastor" said to me that my Logic and Reasoning has no bearing on decision making when I was asked why I'm cancelling.my membership and leaving! 🤷🏼‍♂️

[CDKLRK]

You left out the best part - regeneration. Ephesians 2:1-10