trinities 182 - White's case for the Trinity - Part 2

In this episode I finish my review of Dr. Jame’s White’s opening statement in his recent debate with unitarian minister Joe Ventilacion. (Part 1 is here.) At a couple of points point here Dr. White sounds like he’s asserting these three claims:

Son = God
Father = God
not-(Son=Father)

If this is what he’s saying, then he’s peddling nonsense. 1-3 are a demonstrably inconsistent triad. From any two of these, it follows that the remaining one is false. Informally:

If Son and Father each just are God (1 & 2), then they must be each other. (not-3)
If the Son just is God and is numerically distinct from the Father (1 & 3) then this rules out the Father being numerically one with God (not-2).
If the Father just is God (2) and he is numerically distinct from the Son (3), then it must be false that the Son just is God . (not-1)

It is not reasonable to assert 1-3, since according to logic, at least one of them must be false.

But it’s not clear that this is what Dr. White is asserting! He says that the “being” of God, which he oddly uses the name YHWH for, is “shared by” each of the three. But he neither clarifies the meaning of “Persons” in the context of the Trinity, nor does he clarify the term “being.” This prevents him from making an effective case. Until it is clearly stated what “the doctrine of the Trinity” is, how can we see it as obviously following from the New Testament? What is supposed to follow?

At the end of this episode I issue a challenge to Dr. White to publicly debate me one one of these questions:

The God of the Bible is the Trinity.
According to the Bible, Jesus is God himself.

I claim that a strong case can be made against both of these claims from the Bible and common sense, without assuming unitarianism or any controversial theory of philosophy or theology.

Dr. James White vs Bro. Joe Ventilacion – Who Is God? – Trinity Debate – Official
Dr. James White (Contact Form)
ad hominem fallacy
Anthony Buzzard, Jesus was not a Trinitarian
the indiscernibility of identicals
10 steps towards getting less confused about the Trinity – #6 get a date – part 1
trinitarian or unitarian?
The Lost Early History of Unitarian Christian Theology
podcast 145 – ‘Tis Mystery All: the Immortal dies!
Is there a God? Tuggy – Kershnar debate, Fredonia, April 2016
“Trinity Schminity” by Winterband
This week’s thinking music is “Land Legs,” by Andy G. Cohen.

Weekly podcast exploring views about the Trinity, and more generally about God and Jesus in Christian theology and philosophy. Debates, interviews, and historical and contemporary perspectives. Hosted by philosopher of religion / analytic theologian Dr. Dale Tuggy.

[ZpeaceION]

Dr Tuggy, thankyou so much addressing this video. So many times I watched the video and concluded the same points, but did not have the time nor the analytic background to phrase it as you did. Well done Sir. You do it with so much charity as opposed to White. Shalom

[noahdanielg]

Dale vs. White would be EPIC!!! (You'd completely destroy his smugness)

[objectiveincision]

40:08 - _"Would you like to see dr white and I debate one of these topics?"_ *Absolutely!* The fool is running like a b1tch avoiding you!

[tomidomusic]

Debates are for the most part uninteresting two sided harangues that seldom bear fruit. I believe it's time to forego debates and put trinitarian and oneness idols on trial to the glory of our Father in Heaven; Yahweh. For this I will donate without any hesitation. 1000 people each paying $100 is a reasonable amount to get this started.

[larrythrasher]

Tuggy wins again!! This is like replying a Super Bowl over again where your team wins 42 to 3!! LOL 😅

[petrinageorge]

Rugby who?no idea of your scholarly skills....come to the light so we can see you...