Why Arc Fault Breaker Is Tripping, Testing Method, Part 1

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Arc Fault Breakers trip for several reasons. We can test the circuits in the panel by using a light bulb. We can trip the breaker.

[HouseImprovements]

You need to have your website /logo vanish after awhile so we can see the entire screen. Half of what you were showing was un viewable.

[denrayr]

A safer test would have been to connect the bulb between the white and black wire that you were shorting. The bulb would have lit because there was potential. You could have then opened each breaker one at a time until the light went out. The breaker that caused the light to go out would identify the circuit that was backfeeding.

[Petersonelectricllc]

I’ve been in the field for 21 years and a master for 14 yrs.
But just still a student every day.

[Petersonelectricllc]

Thanks for watching, I tend to trace hot. I’m an old appliance technician 20 years ago, I’ve been in this field now for about 21 years. I think my videos get a lot of criticism because guys are scared to do things hot and or their company says you have to turn power off completely. I think it’s easier and you understand current and voltage better when you tracings hot to see why a device failed.
I think that if you learn to trace hot with gloves on, in the long run you know why people are shocked and or electrocuted. There is a difference between electrocution and just a tingle, but I think it keeps people scared especially electricians that never learned to practice this skill. It would be similar to a mechanic not being able to hear or use other senses to diagnose the vehicle.

[toyotalover]

Thanks for taking the time to do this video. I have been an electrician for about six years, I'm still learning at this point, there are a lot of electricians out there and every one of them has their own ideas and way of troubleshooting and wiring. Your effort is greatly appreciated.

[in_significant]

Once you knew the breaker tripped from the backfed circuit by swapping breaker locations from circuit 6 to 8, you created a direct short from phase A to B. It would have been much faster and safer to keep the circuit isolated from the breaker like how it was in the beginning of the video and placed a circuit tracer on the wire in question OR individually turn off each breaker until the backfed circuit was de-energized. Then you just had to trace out where it's back feeding from and isolate. :) Good job thinking it through.

[easymac]

You could have turned power off at each breaker and then use a multi-meter in continuity mode, connect one lead to the hot wire that is back-feeding and then probe each breaker until you find the one it's connected to. - Probably the bathroom next to that bedroom, that would be my first hunch and hoping the breakers are labeled somewhat understandably.

I read your comment about tracing hot, that seemed to be addressing criticism for the lack of gloves, and I agree; you are less likely to become complacent. But for quickly diagnosing, I'm quite certain working with the power off would be better and troubleshooting stepped forward quicker.

Or if you REALLY want to do it hot or don't have a multi-meter (lol), flip the AFCI it was connected to - off, attach a load to that circuit, and start flipping breakers until the load actually shuts off.
Posting at 10:47, not sure how you end up resolving it, but that's my thoughts thus far. Will edit this as necessary.
26:00 Epic ending.

[chrismitchell]

You spent almost 20 minutes trying to find the breaker that was back feeding the one line, when all you had to do was turn each of the other breakers on the same phase off one at a time. Which wouldn't have even taken a minute. Instead you are arching the wires together trying to get one to trip. I can even understand trying it once but doing it a dozen times, no thank no need and not safe, you even commented how the wires were getting hot. Well, they are getting hot through the entire house on that line. How about next time you don't try to burn down the customers house.

[dontes]

I'm retired electrician, stop shorting wire. Ok with that said, you need what's called Amprobe current tracer. The one I used isn't made any more ( but they have updated model some what. I would turn off the Arc-fault breaker. I would hook the transmittter to the back feedback hot and neutral. Then use the receiver to find it's breaker. If that helps. The old unit came with a transformer to use the transmittter (120v) up to 600v lines. I used the tool to find a dead circuit in a room with all the breakers on. I would hook the transmittter to a hot from so we're and the trace the neutral (if good) back to the panel. With the breaker found, I would turn it off and then find what's not working and look nearest to the lost power spot. The transformer I used once to traced 560v from neutral to ground (Shorted secondary HID ballast 277/480v system in a 200k sqft Comm building). The best trouble shooting tool I ever used and one I would get if I got back in the trade. I saw your lights flicker video, I never found a good tool to trace under ground faults.

[mrbill]

That new GE AFCI breaker will not trip when shorting the neutral to ground. Older AFCI breakers have a form of GFCI protection in them. That's why they trip when neutrals are crossed or neutral to ground short. GE and at least one other brand have taken the GFCI part out of the AFCI breakers. They will only trip using the test button or if they (hopefully) detect an arc.
You didn't have a problem with an AFCI, you simply had a backfed circuit. You didn't have to keep shorting the disconnected hot to the neutral. You could/should have used your meter or test light between the disconnected hot and neutral. Then turn off breakers until you found which one was backfeeding.
When you found the backfeed, you should have stopped and went to that room and traced down where the backfeed was occuring. Most likely in a multi-gang switch box. But could be anywhere in that area/room.

[Mathmusiciandlife]

I would go into the rooms of the 2 circuits and I'm sure you will find a socket where it was set up to have a switched socket where the tab connecting both plugs is not clipped. Check to see if you have 220v on the circuit that's tripping. This happened in my house and never tripped the circuit until the front dining room light was turned on when the ceiling fan was also on. Wild!

[Cypresshtcom]

AWESOME VIDEO!! I feel like im learning something important watching you go through all these steps. You have no idea how valuable this information is. Keep going!!

[ALIMJETHA]

Take a meter and shut of each breaker one at a time to see what circuits are doubled up.... not melting the system

[divex]

LOL at the end where the bulb shatters. Cut that... Cameraguy: I don't know how

[playnationtoday]

Interesting trouble-shooting technique! Thanks for sharing, especially as AFCI's are more required in 2017 and we are called out to deal with more trouble-shooting service calls!!

[guillermoramos]

it got double tap on the same phase, thats y it doesn't trip, the Arc fault got damage, the neutral is not tile in with the original circuit, most likely in a switch box, it going to be hard to find with out the light bulb now that it is broken . can wait to see part 2.

[arlendavis]

You have hot back feeding from another breaker on the opposite phase so when you put the braker in the upper slot you now have 240 volts across it and you will blow it. You need to put a voltmeter on that wire that is hot even when it is not connected to the braker and them start to turn off brakers until it goes dead. That is the braker that it is back-feeding from. Someone accidently connected that circuit to another circuit somewhere in the house. I have run into this before.

[NICKo_o]

Big Respect to Petersonelectric best videos on YouTube. Changing the game

[tomtke]

you give NEW ENERGY to the term "sparky!"

[davidpierre]

Hi Brother Peterson, you need to trace the circuit out, and find all load on the circuit. When you identify them. Disconnect one load at a time to find the fault.