#37 - Decorated Permutations of Conscious Agents: an interview with Donald Hoffman

In episode 37 of the quantum consciousness series, Justin Riddle takes a deep dive into Donald Hoffman’s conscious agent model and relates it to the leading theories of quantum consciousness. The structure of this episode is an introduction to Hoffman’s model of conscious agents, then an interview with Don Hoffman in November 2022, and finally some reflections on the implications of this model. Hoffman begins by describing the interface theory of perception: we have mistaken the external “physical” world to be fundamental reality. But this external world that we see around us is an evolved interface that was created through billions of years of evolution and cannot be trusted. The world you experience is like a video game – with icons, side quests, and abstract motivations to win victory points. The “real” world is not directly accessible to us through our perceptual systems and there is a great illusion at play. Hoffman then proposes his Conscious Agents theory, in which the universe is comprised of conscious beings interacting with each other. He describes these conscious agents as Markov Chains – probabilistic systems that move through a set of possible experience and action states while learning from their interactions with the world at large. Finally, he proposes that conscious agents are composed of conscious agents resulting in a fractal nested hierarchy of beings from the scale of the entire universe down to the Planck scale. This nested hierarchy is fundamental and now just needs to be mapped into modern particle physics in order to complete his theory of everything. Here, he introduces “decorated permutations” which are a way to map the Markov Models of his conscious agents into geometric structures. With this mapping, he claims to connect his agents to fundamental geometric forms at the core of reality, such as the amplituhedron, and then that amplituhedron can derive space-time, particle physics, and quantum mechanics. His theory is very Platonist in its essence and relies on a geometric depiction of reality. At the end of the episode, I praise the ability of Hoffman’s theory to connect the nested hierarchies of beings into a substrate for mathematical forms to arise, but also caution that his model throws away the physical world and mental world to some degree to focus exclusively on the Platonic world of forms. Living within a hyperdimensional geometric form may result in the same nihilistic conclusions that our lives are just unfolding as sub-projections of this universal form. Can we salvage the human spirit from unmoving crystalline geometry? I hope you enjoy!

~~~ Timestamps ~~~
0:00 Introduction
3:05 Interface theory and conscious agents
13:12 The interface of quantum measurement
20:08 Experience, action, and the world
25:01 Consciousness as a network of Markov Chains
31:55 Nested Hierarchy of Conscious Agents
39:15 Interview with Don Hoffman
1:01:19 Decorated permutations and geometric models

#consciousness #consciousagents #donhoffman

Music licensed from and created by Baylor Odabashian. BandCamp: @UnscrewablePooch

[MaskedUfologistShow]

Your descriptions of Hoffman's thoughts are the best I have come across in several years now of viewing all of his stuff that was findable; with the exception of Hoffman himself of course.

[RRR-zc]

You’ve got to have a full-length interview with Don!

[Meditation]

Another very recent interview on this subject which is extremely cutting edge and this WILL DEFINITELY open new doors....and it has accurate mathematics backing it up . A total game changer. 💥💯

[Daniel-cydq]

I prayed for this years ago thank you Justin Michael Riddle

[joshknittel]

Justin - I love your work and am so glad you decided to create this channel. I’ve watched all but two of the videos in this series and my mind is blown. I’ve always been curious about consciousness and the nature of reality and your education, intelligence, and grasp of the fundamental ideas amongst the leading edge of quantum theory was so helpful in understanding so much of what I always thought would be too difficult to understand. Not that I fully understand any of it really - but it definitely makes more sense to me now after watching your series.

Will there be a second series or any updates anytime soon?

[skyotter]

Justin, thank you. I found your interview and presentation very creative and different. Lots of diagrams! :) From the 50 or so interviews with Don Hoffman I've watched, I appreciate at the end you asking him about the moral and meaning implications of his conclusions. My rephrasing might be: where is the heart and soul embedded in decorated permutations/ geometric hyperspace? Will we still care about plants animals and the quality of water? There have been very few of these kind of questions put to him and the few times he has answered his responses have been very ethical/sound but NOT in-depth in the way he explains all the math and science. PLEASE followup with him on that. You would be doing all of us—and the planet—a great service.

[ShallowedOutGolf]

Chris Langan’s CTMU essentially bridges Platonism and syntax to interface theory

[vincecallagher]

Since I started meditating this is more accessible.

[JGjdg]

Found your channel by searching for Donald Hoffman. Get him back! 😊

[psyfiles]

Thank you this is fantastic love the illustrations I’ve listened a lot to Hoffman and this adds clarity! Pretty exciting

[andyw_uk]

One thing you're getting wrong here, is that in Hoffman's view, consciousness is most definitely *not* a quantum computer. In fact quantum mechanics, along with space-time, are *both* emergent properties of consciousness; as per Dr. Nima Arkani-Hamed's theories, which Hoffman is working off and indeed are worth studying in and of themselves.

[alastairbowie]

Super interesting. Cheerz for tha upload!

[harveyFOSHO]

Conscious Agents dynamics expressed through the Orch OR wave function collapse … let’s go!🚀🚀🚀

[togai-dev]

Clearest explanation i've heard so far..

[doctorajwright]

The point is it’s nothing to do with quantum stuff so not sure why it’s referred to as that. All spacetime explanations are just external representations. They are not objectively real or fundamental

[MAX-TECH-INC]

ABUNDANCE TO EVERYBODY AND EVERY THING. (Before I watch the video.)

[crazygadgets]

I wonder how these models correlate with Wolfram's Ruliad. It seems to me there are similarities. Justin, have you looked into this?

[eugenei]

The "quantum" property actually does not apply to conscious agents, they are not "quantum computers". Hoffman claims in his interview that quantum behavior, just like space-time, is an emergent property derived from more fundamental interactions between conscious agents, and so quantum mechanics is as doomed as space-time. Conscious agents' interactions are described by Markovian kernels that have nothing "quantum" in them, and not by the equations of quantum mechanics.

[edmartinez]

Justin ...you are misunderstanding Hoffman...he DOES NOT equate guantum mechanics nor quantum mechanics with conscious agents. Quite the contrary. It is CA'S that project anything quantum which are "virtual reality headsets".
You need to go back and clear up this confusion. It is central to this entire matter.
Hope this helps.

[aleemuzzamansheikh]

Dear Justin, Your episodes are getting more difficult to understand these days. Be precise and use more graphics. Thanks.