Iraq: The Legacy

*This is from the archives and recorded in March 2023.*

Tony Blair said to Parliament in March 2003 that what happened in Iraq would ‘determine the pattern of international politics for the next generation’.

Join Alastair and Rory as they discuss the implications of the Iraq invasion and whether Blair’s speech did prove to be true...

Podcast episode: 111 + 112

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[phillipsmith]

I can clearly remember Helen Clark saying she had seen the same intelligence, due to 5 eyes and in what you have to admit took some courage kept NZ out of Iraq. She saw the same info but drew the correct conclusion. You should interview Helen Clark and ask her how she got it right.

[richardbourn]

Rory saying he doesn't want to be fair to the intelligence services because they "fucked up bigly" is excellent and more discourse should be like this.

[brandonwells]

I have been waiting for this difficult conversation for some time and it was worth the wait. Kudos to you both for facing it square on.

[VillagePotemkin]

Former French president Jacques Chirac warned that this unjustified military invasion of Iraq would have disastrous consequences for the region and the world, 2 decades later we are still dealing with the repercussions terror, hatred, resentment and violence.
This is the legacy of the bush - Blair era.

I thank Rory very much for his impartial and truthful analysis, I find it hard to believe that Mr Campbell is still in denial even after 2 decades of this unmitigated catastrophe.

Some people can’t handle the truth

[merlion]

Rory’s ability to make a point while being polite yet assertive is absolutely text book for an experienced diplomat. What an asset to the UK.

[johnmcalester]

The complete lack of contrition or any admission from Alistair Campbell that he got it horribly wrong is depressing and disappointing but in no way surprising.

[kvkv]

AC is not picking up the point Rory is trying to repeatedly make about the depth of cultural and geopolitical misunderstanding about the region and the impact of their decision-making.

[rhiannonhill]

Rory comes out of this conversation as an honest man and a superior intellect. Campbell is still living in the Bliar Bubble.

[asoli_dev]

Huge respect to Rory on how he navigated this one.

[theroomfloor]

You cant say this podcast doesn't do tough conversations. I have a lot of respect for Alistair Campbell here, purely for the fact its the one conversation you'd expect them to avoid. They confront it head on for nearly two hours, and there is a lot to be said for that alone.

[maryj]

Thank you for doing this episode. It can't have been easy on a personal level. You are both stand up people and a testament on how to be polite and discuss this with courtesy and civility.
Thank you again both of you.

[tau]

Rory is a wonderful friend here to Alastair.

[sollamander]

This episode highlights why I respect Rory much more than Alastair even though I'm on the left politically.

[fwarktheyeti]

The fact that these two have continued to work together for a long time after this conversation took place is testament to their characters. No matter where you sit on this debate, its a joy to see two people act like grown ups - in a world that is fragmented, populist focussed, and obsessed with the view of the general public. Bravo.

[juliangilbert]

Really fascinating. Just one thing not discussed. I was a Blairite at the time and supported the build up to the Iraq invasion to force Iraq's compliance with UN resolutions, until the very moment our troops crossed the border. Just before, with US and UK build up on the border, everyone's forgotten that Sadam did fully capitulate and agreed to all demands to allow full inspections. I thought, naively, wow its worked! No need for war now.
But we still invaded anyway, to my horror, and at that moment my support stopped as i realised it was not about WMDs at all but about a desire for war itself.

[TheSackblabbath]

A lot of stuff Rory says is bang on correct. The group think and the politicking was a huge factor.

[halmycroft]

'Part of the case for war' - what utter and unmitigated horseshit. The case for war made to the British people was that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that could hit us within 45 minutes and that they were prepared to do so, necessitating a pre-emptive strike. We lived through those times and we remember.

Going back to the question 'Do you understand why people are still angry about the war?' - have you ever considered that a major part of it is decades of post-hoc justifications and gaslighting the public, trying to say that this was not the case being made for the war? We will go to our graves angry about it if this is not engaged with honestly.

[AlanHamilton-ji]

The desire to find WMD cost Dr David Kelly his life, whether by suicide or MI6/MI5 sculduggery. Before that, he was called a middle brow academic by a press stooge of the government, instead of an expert in his field, which he was. That was what sickened the public once they had time to consider all the ramifications. It was and looked forced.

[peterdickman]

Wow, that was an extremely frank and powerful discussion. Thanks both for your honest and forthrightness

[berryrb]

One of the reasons why Campbell was such an effective member of Blair's team is that he seems to genuinely 100% believe his own spin; the spin that helped to legitimise Blair's bs. And he hasn't changed. He can't. I don't think there are many people that could comprehend and accept the consequences of their own actions when they are so impactful and significant and wrong.