Anthropological and Historical Perspectives on Initiation with Andy Hilton

Andy Hilton is author of Anthropology and Mysticism in the Making of Initiation. He is also coeditor of the anthology, Perspectives on Commoning.

Here he discusses the history of anthropological investigations into tribal processes involving rites of passage, liminality, and rebirth. He also discusses his own experience of cosmic consciousness while attending a shamanic workshop. This was part of a larger initiatory process lasting nine months. As a consequence he has spent the past thirty years developing his ideas for a sub-discipline called "initiation studies".

New Thinking Allowed host, Jeffrey Mishlove, PhD, is author of The Roots of Consciousness, Psi Development Systems, and The PK Man. Between 1986 and 2002 he hosted and co-produced the original Thinking Allowed public television series. He is the recipient of the only doctoral diploma in "parapsychology" ever awarded by an accredited university (University of California, Berkeley, 1980).

(Recorded on January 26, 2020)

[harmonic]

Great interchange gentlemen! Really appreciates Andy's views, and of course, yours, Jeffrey.

[TheAlcheMaze]

This is one of my favorite topics. I'm working on a short series about the legend of Perceval and inner initiation. I enjoyed the conversation! Thanks as always, Dr. Mishlove!

[danielduarte]

Thank you for another great interview.

[joolsner]

Please can you bring Andy back in to discuss his UFO experience? It's sounds like a fascinating story. Many thanks.

[kolskit]

You two seemed to be having fun. I enjoyed this one a lot. :)

[arimagoo]

Fantastic topic worth exploring, understanding, digging into and possibly even offering in our modern world of consumerism and general apathy, if not meaningless existence. Especially if done with appropriate preparation with safety in mind. Please have more such talks! Best Regards!

[oceanusprocellarum]

I like his tenacity. Very interesting that comparative initiation studies is now slowly becoming it's own field. I can't tell if the gentleman has bias or if he's playing devil's advocate, or maybe he's just a skeptic? But it's all engaging. Thanks

[peggyharris]

Can a culture (such as ours) that thoroughly insulates itself from death ever know what initiation is or even what they are being initiated into? Since there is no ritualistic uniformity involved (in Western modern culture) isn't this idea of "initiation" just a flicker of ancestral amnesia?

[mikegest]

No mention of psychedelics. What would Terence Mckenna say?

[wowsus]

Interesting talk. He brings up the idea that ancient structures could have been used to produce some sort of energy, but what use would they have had for any form of stored energy? They didn't have any technology that required energy. I would have to agree with Mishlove that such things were built for spiritual practices, Andy says "such massive structures just for that?" I would say they valued such things far higher than we could imagine.

[Jerryketel]

A very good interview. Once again, Dr. Mishlove has shown his superior grasp of the paranormal. And too bad Andy Hilton dissed on William Henry, since Jeffery is his spilt. ;)

[kabud]

This subject, the whole Initiation Theme- is one of the most if not ``The most" Fundamental: it is about the Transfer of the Utter Truth, to put in short wording. Any serious researcher needs to study this much deeper. Let me offer this. In English speaking world Guenon is not much known, so the `initiation lecture` like that needs some more insight. --- Insights on Initiation René Guénon. "Aperçus sur l'Initiation" is a book by René Guénon published in 1946 and which contains numerous articles published in Le Voile d'Isis and Études TRADITIONAL between 1932 and the Second World War. Insights on the Initiation exposes the "initiatory path" as the goal of the existence of "the man of Tradition".

1. Summary
2. Content
3. Reception

In: a) "Man and his becoming according to Vêdânta, b) "The Symbolism of the Cross" and c) "The Multiple States of Being", René Guénon exposed the metaphysical principles of what he calls "Tradition" .

But Guénon has affirmed on numerous occasions that theoretical knowledge is without common measure with real knowledge, the latter can only be obtained by the initiation conferred by a regular traditional organization. Jean-Marc Vivenza thus defines initiation in the Guenon sense: “initiation is a path of Knowledge and spiritual realization, taking a specific path and using particular methods ".


Several stages must be identified in the initiation process:

the first stage is that of "qualification", linked to the individual's abilities. Is the latter able to develop spiritually in this life? The qualification is above all of an intellectual order, in the Guénonien direction of the term, ie spiritual. Intellectual has nothing to do with rational here, on the contrary it designates the ability to go beyond the mental

The initiation organizations can have certain specific criteria which make it possible to see if the candidate is able to extract himself from the modern mentality and to assimilate the traditional doctrines

the second stage corresponds to joining an authentic initiation group . The choice of the initiatory group must be made with extreme discernment: many organizations with religious or initiatory claims are impostures. This organization must absolutely be the depository of a non-human spiritual influence (Divine in religious language).

The origin of this influence cannot be of a human nature and transmission must imperatively take place through an unbroken line over time through precise rites and symbols . Guénon gives the example of apostolic succession in Christianity since the revelation of Christ

However, Guénon will declare that if the apostolic transmission is indeed of divine origin, it has only a religious value (allowing Salvation but not deliverance) and has lost, throughout history, its initiatory character ( which alone achieves deliverance).

This position of Guénon on the Christian sacraments will be the subject of many criticisms. The fact remains that initiatory transmission follows the same rule: absolute necessity of an uninterrupted initiatory chain from a non-human, transcendent origin .

the third corresponds to the initiation tests: the candidate undergoes all kinds of preparations before receiving the initiation . These preparations are necessary for the initiation to be well received.

the fourth is transmission itself, that is to say initiation itself. During a more or less elaborate ceremony, the qualified members of the organization transmit to the candidate "spiritual influence" described as "enlightenment" through very precise rites.

The transmission will make possible the development of spiritual possibilities in him which were only latent before .

The candidate has now received the “virtual” initiation.

the last stage corresponds to the spiritual path properly speaking, that is to say the passage from the “virtual” initiation to the “effective” initiation.

So far, the candidate has only arrived at the front door of the path (hence the term initiation). He must now begin the inner work based on the rites he must perform, following the instructions given by the initiators to progress in Knowledge.

He must acquire spiritual knowledge through continual and lifelong work. No one can do the work for them. However, an external spiritual master, a " Guru" (By definition someone more advanced on the path) can guide him until he has fully realized that the real.

Guru is, in fact, at the heart of his being. This inner Guru is, in fact, the "Self" which was discussed in Man and his future according to Vêdânta.

The rites (which are symbols put into action) are essential for the initiate to enter into relation with the higher states of his being.

The true initiate is the one who knows how to consciously use the supra-rational faculties (which are part of the supra-consciousness) and which require to gradually abandon the mind.

This is the use of intellectual intuition (associated with Buddha) Whose mode of knowledge proceeds by identity of subject and object.

Guénon declared that the path to this knowledge requires "only one essential preparation, and that is theoretical knowledge [implying traditional doctrines]". But he specified: all that can not go far without the most important means which is "the concentration".

The rational study of initiatory texts and the implementation of rites are of no use if spiritual transmission has not taken place: for example, the recitation of a mantra is useless without the spiritual influence transmitted by the master during the initiation.

One cannot initiate oneself, or "in astral": for Guénon, any will to revive dead traditions (of ancient Egypt, of the Celts, of the Germans, etc.) has NO meaning .

The spiritual laws which govern the spiritual path have nothing to do with magic or the paranormal phenomena which concern the psychic and not the spiritual: to attach to these phenomena is an obstacle to spiritual development.

There is a hierarchy among the very many possible initiations. In the General introduction to the study of Hindu doctrines, Guénon had already introduced the distinction, which he considers fundamental, between exoterism and esotericism: exoterism is for everyone and aims at Salvation (that is, not to fall into lower worlds after death).

Exoterism takes a religious form for the three monotheistic religions and works only on individuality. Esotericism corresponds to the initiation part and has the ultimate goal of deliverance. In the hierarchy in the initiations, Guénon distinguishes the “small Mysteries” from the “great Mysteries”

The aim of the Little Mysteries is to arrive at the Edenic state:

it is the journey on the horizontal axis in The Symbolism of the Cross leading to the center of the cross where the temporal condition is abolished (the initiate reaches the " sense of eternity ”).

The great Mysteries correspond to the acquisition of the supra-individual states corresponding to the ascent on the vertical axis of the cross (first to reach the informal states by abolition of the duality subject / object, then passing of the manifestation by the going beyond the distinction Being / non-Being).

According to Guénon, the little Mysteries correspond to the initiations of artisans (caste of Vaishyas ) and knights (caste of Kshatriyas). The great Mysteries correspond to the initiations of the priestly caste (the Brahmins ) .

Guénon considers imperative the need to combine esotericism with the corresponding exotericism (as he became a Muslim stake while being Sufi from 1930) and not to mix the practices of different traditions: we must practice only one spiritual path (Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc.).

For Guénon, there are traditions where the separation of esotericism / exotericism does not exist ( Hinduism, Tibetan Lamaism ) as much esotericism permeates everything. In China, the two are completely separate ( Confucianism for exoterism and Taoism for esotericism ). The two overlap in Islam (with Sufism ) and Judaism (with Kabbalah ).

In the West, Guénon claims that Christianity had a strong esoteric character at its origin, but that in order to save the Roman world, it was exteriorized in a providential way: the Christian sacraments then went from esoteric to exoteric status

In the Middle Ages, Christian initiation groups existed, the most important being the order of the Temple After the destruction of this order, Christian esotericism became more and more closed and separated from the official Church. Freemasonry and companionship have inherited the last western initiation rites

For Guénon, the Catholic Church has retained its authentic religious dimension but has lost its esoteric dimension, making access to definitive deliverance no longer possible. Mysticism since the Renaissance is a passive way lower than the initiatory way: it makes it possible to reach the divine but in an indirect and often uncontrollable way

Freemasonry has kept initiation transmissions but, in addition to being low initiations (initiations of trades mixed with remains of chivalrous initiations), its passage from operative masonry to speculative masonry in the 18th century century prevents the passage from virtual initiation to effective initiation, the latter should precisely be done through the exercise of the profession in question

. Worse, the masonry has diverted part of its initiatory role in the XIX th century to devote himself to politics in a direction most anti-traditional (anti-Catholic). Guénon has long kept the hope of an alliance between certain members of the Catholic Church and masonry to reconstitute an entire elite (applying the Catholic religion and a Christian masonry). He envisaged that oriental masters could revive these traditions spiritually from time to time.

[kabud]

last week twice the subject of the Initiation was discussed that I had to come across. Guenon formulated nicely: it is the most mysterious Tradition and it finds the candidates by Itself. No secret society has somth to do with it because it is all based on pure spiritual special way of recognition.

One has to be aware that there are attempts of the false initiation and even
contra-initiation, but that is.. well, if you get so unlucky and become a victim of such.

We are interested in the real one anyway. It looks so that there are: knowledge, skill, powers and so on, ALL TOGETHER, that can be acquired ONLY thru the Initiation network, if i may say. As in teacher to student directly

or even without a physical presence of the teacher.

Only a small percentage of us are capable to comprehend THAT. Most people are incompatible to perceive that kind of ..information? Thinking? Magic powers? All of that.

SO `It` will find you if you are one of them

[professormaxtrinity]

My book, "Suicide Prevention For the Warrior; How to thrive in and survive the adolescent phase of life.", addresses 4 phases of Human development with a focus on the transition phase of adolescence to adult. In it, the individual is assigned the task of designing their own initiation rites as well as a memorial for what I call, the death of the childhood. The death of the childhood is marked by the ending of purely dualistic views and a sudden introduction to the ambiguity of paradox and all inclusive paradigms. Anywho, it stresses the importance of self designed rites, rituals and meanings for their lives. I consider it to be revolutionary.

[donnysandley]

The entrapment would still be cared for and not abandoned and a key thing to think about 🤔

[kabud]

Rene Genon' work ("Aperçus sur l'Éditions Traditionnelles", 1946) deals with various aspects of initiation (initiation), understood as a conscious and ordered process of perception of spiritual influences, which takes place within traditional initiative organizations and has the aim of achieving by a human being the highest (overindividual) state of "Universal Man" .

The "active" (and even "scientific", in the sense of "traditional sciences") path of initiation is opposed
to the path of mysticism, which is irregular, random and "passive" .

A mystic (like a follower of religion) does not overcome the limits of his individual capabilities .

Besides, initiation clearly differs from magic, which, although it belongs to "traditional sciences", but of a lower, utilitarian order.

Genon speaks about three consecutive conditions of initiation:

- "potentiality" is the very possibility for a person to accept initiation due to his or her innate inner and bodily qualities, the so-called individual "qualifications" (corresponding to the materia prima, or substantive side of manifestation);

- "virtuality" - receiving initiation ("enlightenment", "second birth") through the transmission of spiritual influences by a regular initiative organization. This moment, on an individual, microcosmic level, corresponds to the beginning of the Universal Manifestation(!) (lat. Fiat Lux, "Let there be Light"), i.e. the ordering of chaos of possibilities(!);

- "actualization" - conscious inner work on realization of the received virtual initiation and achievement, as a result, of the state of the Highest Nativity.

Meditation is one of the "pillars" of spiritual realisation

Transmission (transmission) of spiritual influences is made only within a continuous chain of succession (Arab. silsila, Eur. shelshelet, Sanskrit Parampara), the "non-human" source of which is outside the specific historical "facts" or real "historical persons". The highest spiritual center of Tradition is hidden in the conditions of the present period (Kali-Yugi) and exercises its influence through secondary centers (similar to the middle links of the chain) representing private traditions .

Symbols, rituals, myths are the pillars of metaphysical realization .

Symbols connect different levels of reality.

Ritual (ritual) is, in essence, a set of symbols (graphic or sound), "activated".

Myths, also being a kind of symbols, are closely connected with the concept of "mystery" and mean "inexpressible", "perceived in silence" .

All this promotes cognition with the help of

intellectual intuition (cognition "with the eye of the heart", Arab. ain-ul-calb),

which has a synthetic character .

Genon contrasts it with a profane "education" (based on rational, discursive thinking), analytical and syncretic.

Genon's true synthesis, that is,

considering everything from the point of view of the unifying Principle,

is opposed to syncretism, artificial mixing.

This is why Genon is against mixing different traditional forms of initiation, recognizing the legitimacy and equality of each of them .

Genon also warns against mixing the mental and spiritual when all sorts of unusual phenomena and paranormal(!!!!) abilities arising in some cases in the path of initiation are taken for its ultimate purpose.

Moreover, a fascination(!!!!) with such phenomena, which fully belong to the realm of the intermediate, mental world, may be harmful to the true, spiritual purposes of initiation .

The full disclosure of individual abilities is achieved by

"small mysteries", while

"great mysteries" prepared by them lead the being out of the boundaries of individuality, understood as the integral unity of the bodily form and its extra-corporeal extensions .

To "small mysteries" corresponds a transmutation

(a creature's achievement of the initial integral state, beginning with a "second birth" at the moment of accepting initiation),

and to "great mysteries" - a transformation,

or "third birth", equivalent to a "second death", death on the mental level (not necessarily connected with physical death). In another aspect, these are royal (Kshatri) and priestly (Brahman) initiations, which are not different kinds, but successive stages of one process.

True initiative organizations have nothing in common with either religious sects or secret societies, the closed nature of which is conditioned by considerations of external conspiracy rather than by true ("unspeakable") initiative secret.

For example, the mystery of the names of the members of an organization is caused not so much by external reasons as by the fact that when an individual receives an initial, virtual initiation, he or she acquires a NEW initiative name (at the same time, the mystery of the names of the members of the organization is not caused by external reasons, but by the fact that the individual acquires a NEW, initiative name. (in this case, a profane, secular name no longer matters, becoming a random "detail" of the biography). As the boundaries of individuality are crossed, the human being finds himself "on the other side" of the name and form (nama-rupa).

Referring to the question of real initiative organizations, Genon asserts that in the modern West only two such societies have survived to some extent as legal and traditional ones: Freemasons and "apprentices" ("companionage"), despite their certain decline .

It is impossible(!) to "establish" an initiative organization on one's own through an individual desire, since the condition of the reality of consecration is continuous continuity (similar to the apostolic one) and the superhuman source of this organization. As a consequence, anything that does not possess these traits is, at best, a "pseudo-initiation" or even outright quackery (not to mention the more dangerous precedents associated with "counter-initiation").


Touching upon the problem of the "elite", Genon notes:

(...) the elite in our understanding is a set of those who possess the qualities required for initiation, and who, of course, always constitute a minority among people; in a certain sense, all of them are "called", by virtue of the "central" position that a human being occupies in this existential state among all other creatures who also remain in it, but are few "chosen", and in the present era there are clearly fewer than ever.

In the final three chapters Guenon covers, among other things, some metaphysical issues using the principals as : Ordo ab Chao (Order from Chaos), Post Tenebras Lux (After Darkness - Light) and the gospel terms Verbum, Lux et Vita (Word, Light and Life).

In particular, the timeless beginning of manifestation, described as ordering the chaos of possibilities by the Divine Word ("Order", f. Ordre, which also means "order")[57], is similar to the moment of initiation, and the chaos of possibilities of the Universal Substance corresponds to the dark, chaotic state of the initiator, who came from the profane world.

The birth of a spiritual principle in the centre of human individuality ("second birth") is an actualisation of the "eternal Avatar" as a "fetus" of universal manifestation.

[cosmicocean]

Initiation is psychological, no angels will fly on your head during initiation...it is just for psychological inspiration and momentous.

[bettyeldridge]

Describing it? . Swedenborg has done that: Establish a point of reference early in life, to be used later in Life. Jung described a few memories of events that happened when he was very young that were such points.. THis is an example: A Sunday school teacher told her version of the Christmas story when I was about 8 or 9 years old. The memory of the entire story as she told it and as I experienced it, has re-occurred into my mind many times as I lived the days and events of my life.
Jung experienced it, Petr Ouspensky experienced it, and mentioned that certain memories had re-occurred into h is mind and they were the essentials in his life. Theodore Reik failed to recognise an event that had happened when he was about 9 or so, that later in life inspired him to write The Creation of Woman. He heard himself blurt out something that he could not have understood at his young age. He also failed to recognize the 'use' of what a faculty of his mind was trying to do as he re-played in his mind a bridge game he had played the previous night.. The terms used to talk about a bridge game 'developed a double bottom, a 'secret meaning' and the 'double bottom the 'secret meaning' was actually about his relationship to his fragile wife but the mechanism itself was visible to the extent such a mechanism can be visible. That incident is in his Fragment of a Great Confession. He didn't realize until he was in h is 60's that he had written (projected) the story of his marriage in the contexts of what he had knowledge of, about Goethe's romantic life..
The version I heard in Sunday school was about the story of how when the expected king came, he was born in the lowest of places. She had said: "When it came it did not come as it was expected to come." I heard the pronoun 'it' and wondered to myself why she didn't say the masculine pronoun ? "The messiah was not an it. She should have said "he did not come as he was expected."
Swedenborgs' word for this kind of re-occurring memory was 'remains'. They become an object to think about and notice later because they do re-occur for no apparent reason until one becomes curious about them. Mine were memories of a movie serial I saw when I was 8 - 9 years old, "The Missing Link' and a few memories of trying to do something simple but which was very difficult for me even impossible. Like writing like other people for instance. "I can't do it. I can't write like other people." I was in anguish trying to copy what others wrote when I was in the second grade, Very simple things were difficult for me. I hope this clarifies something that is 'use' ful to someone. about how 'it'' becomes the subject to name. . iT has been identified by implications that are sometimes the only pointer towards it. The Impersonal It, was and is still a kind of conversation, fragmented over a several thousand years of our time. I've heard it in many incidents that joined together into a story based events in real time in my actual life. That would seem impossible.

[stephanietretton]

@03:45...Jeff... well I gather an important notion that anthropologists have come up with is the idea of a rite of passage or a transition from one stage of life to another.
Andy... and that became like an item of contemporary popular culture, death and rebirth is another one, and the third from Victor Turner picking on the central part of the tripartite of vangeneths separation liminality, incorporation or reincorporation series, the central part being the liminal and as Victor Turner's focus on liminality or marginality, so we have liminality as another contribution of initiation studies to contemporary culture.

contemporary... when I hear this word I know that its not for me... its like I'm listening to two men talk but can only understand one side... lots of laughs... lol

some one asked me to watch a Terence Mckenna, Rupert Sheldrake, Ralph Abraham talk... which I did, and what I found was two of them I could understand very well, but the other one (Abraham) to me, was speaking a different language...

Thx... I must give this a miss due to my ignorance... I have a problem with words, slight dyslexic, when he answered that first question I was thinking he is either showing off or locking the likes of me out... lol

[StephenCRose]

I have always had a problem with life stages. I find theories of such to be confining, characterizing, stereotyping. We differ to much to allow this -- what? Need to fit someone's model?Just saying.