Testing 119 Ministries on Paul's difficult teachings

In 2 Peter 3:16 tells us that, even at that very early stage of church history, Paul’s writings were already being misrepresented. But being misrepresented by whom? And about what? Which things in Paul’s letters are hard to understand?

This is a passage often used by Torahism (aka Hebrew Roots, Torahism, Torah-keepers) to make a point. Let's see what it does and doesn't say. And we'll specifically examine how that verse is used by 119 Ministries in their Pauline Paradox series. This is important because if we’re not careful, Peter's words can be misapplied in our Bible studies.

OTHER VIDEOS REFERENCED IN THIS VIDEO
Does Matthew 5:17-20 teach the Law is still in effect for Christians?

Matthew 5:18 and the Law of Moses

4.5 Ways the Law of Moses has changed

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00:00 Open
00:25 About 119 Ministries and other Hebrew Roots teachers
02:33 Breaking down the Pauline Paradox argument
03:51 Examining 2 Peter 3:15-16 and Paul's teachings that are hard to understand
05:13 The Hebrew Roots application of this passage

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En 2 Pedro 3:16 nos dice que, incluso en esa etapa muy temprana de la historia de la iglesia, los escritos de Pablo ya estaban siendo tergiversados. ¿Pero ser tergiversado por quién? ¿Y sobre qué? ¿Qué cosas en las cartas de Pablo son difíciles de entender?

Este es un pasaje usado a menudo por el toraísmo (también conocido como raíces hebreas, toraísmo, guardianes de la Torá) para hacer un punto. Veamos qué dice y qué no dice. Y examinaremos específicamente cómo ese versículo es usado por 119 Ministries en su serie Pauline Paradox. Esto es importante porque si no tenemos cuidado, las palabras de Pedro pueden ser mal aplicadas en nuestros estudios bíblicos.

[mf]

Thanks you so much for your very useful videos, teachings and work.
Thanks as well to the way you do them with a very good mindset : never attacking people and always focusing on Scripture.
Lord Jesus Christ bless you.

[creativeeverydaylife]

Thank you for taking the time to provide thorough and serious answers. I have been in Hebrew roots for the past 6 years, but have not before come across anyone who made anything other than a dismissive "you are stupid if you believe that" comment or other lack of full answers. Thanks for making serious answers. Maybe they can help me. God bless

[yeudybarbozacastro]

Thanks for this material!! Blessings 🙌

[nickg]

I think it's a shame the way some people tear into Professor Solberg in these comments, however we are warned that: 'persecution will arise because of The Word'.
The man is working hard to clarify New Testament teachings, for the benefit of all.

[TheLastTrollasaurs]

Hi there,
Isn't there ample amount of context for Peter's warning?
v14: "be diligent to be found without spot or blemish" -- Is a clear focus on obedience to God's Law which defines sin.
and v17: "take care not to be carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability." -- Again Peter returns to obedience of God's Law. The unstable LAWLESS people.

Despite the Law in question I think Peter is clear on what the warning is specifically speaking too. It's not as if we can ignore this scripture and assume it's too vague to consider in the studying of Paul's letters.

[mikenixon]

Thank you for your investigation and fair teaching. Our son is into a Hebrew Roots group. As far as my wife and I are concerned as long as he has given his life to God through Jesus Christ and lives the lifestyle we are happy. However, it is interesting how he will tell his friends we have yet to see the light. Any suggestions of dealing with this? Should we just let it alone? He is only 45 and I know my understanding of God and His Hly Spirit has certainly changed during the past 22 year of my life. I pray he gains a greater and more open understanding as well. Thank you, again. Shalom. Now, let's go be a blessing.

[jontoubeaux]

Thank you Rob, you presented this in a way that is easily understandable. I greatly appreciate your explanation about what Peter is saying regarding Paul. God bless you brother. Oh yes - the salad/mouse poop comment made me laugh!!! Thank you for injecting some humor into your videos.

[rocketmanshawn]

I told you about this month's ago. I'm glad you made a video about it. I'd have to take a look at when 2 Peter was written because in the context of the day of the Lord it's probably more likely referring to the misunderstandings in Thessaloniki about Paul's eschatological teachings.

Edit: 2 Peter was indeed written after both Thessalonian letters. Common consensus being about a decade later.

[gregparis]

Thanks again for another mature and thoughtful video. As Peter noted difficulty with some of Paul's teaching, perhaps Paul might react likewise to difficulties in Peters teaching. It is well that you remain Christian in your attitude to 119. Always aware of the mouse droppings, and sincere greetings to you and your subscribers, Pastor, Greg

[TruthSetFree-zmep]

That old serpent mixed truth with error….
If I have a pure glass of water…and one small drop of poison…both are perfectly clear…I put that one small drop of poison in the pure glass of water…what do we have?
Galatians 4:21-31

[salpezzino]

Rob, another well done vid. God Loves you. The HRM love to quote this scripture while many reject Paul's writings as scripture. Peter states the Paul does write scripture in this verse. defending his fellow Apostle. Even after Paul rebuked Peter publicly.

[batteries]

you left out 2 Peter 3:17 which 119 ministries quotes:

"You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

this is becoming a pattern I am seeing in your videos, where you avoid verses that don't support your theology

[musicinspire]

What's interesting too is that they have not yet put out any video correcting a false teaching. What does that say, other than they believe they are spot on, and have no intention of admitting any falsehoods in their teaching. Even with all the challenges to their teachings that must pour in daily, they STILL have never admitted fault, which is itself very telling.

[LAStreetPreacher]

Judaizers were condemned by the apostle Paul. We are NOT under the ceremonial law, i.e. keeping the Sabbath, circumcision or feast days.
These were nailed to the cross.
Christians are under the moral law to Christ but never for justification.

[mstru]

👊🤓Hey Professor Solberg, your a star & got included in a hit piece on "Chris Lasala's" channel against these types, aka Kingdom In Context.
Several thousand views now & YouTube won't let me post links but if you hadn't seen your cameo appearance in Chris Lasala's video, lol you will be surprised.😇

[talon]

What would you say regarding a teaching that suggests Paul was a false teacher? There is a channel called "Jesus Words Only" that tries to do this very thing. I've been trying to compel him (Doug) that we are indeed saved by grace through faith not by works but he won't accept it when it comes from Paul

[jessewestbrook]

Thanks Rob! Since I work with someone in the Hebrew roots movement, I've been told this more than once 🤦🏼

[henryhodgens]

Rob,
First of all, thank you for allowing comments to your presentation. This shows your desire is to get to the truth of Scripture.

That said, I must, as usual, disagree with your assessment that 2 Pet 3:15, 16 isn’t specific about what is being addressed. To understand the context, all we need to do is look at the very next verse:

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the ERROR OF THE WICKED, fall from your own stedfastness. (2 Pet 3:17)

What is the ERROR OF THE WICKED?

First, Strong’s definition:

(G113) athesmos; lawless, i.e. (by impl.) criminal: --wicked.

Then, Thayer and Smith. "Greek Lexicon entry for Athesmos":

One who breaks through the restraint of LAW and gratifies his lusts.

In first century AD Israel what else could this term LAW refer to except Torah?

Although only used twice in the NT, it is a parallel term to anomia which is used throughout the NT to describe transgression of the Law as in Mt 7:23and 1 John 3:4:

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work INIQUITY. (Mt 7:23)

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW. (1 John 3:4)

(G458) anomia – from G459, illegality, i.e., violation of LAW or (gen.) wickedness: - INIQUITY, x TRANSGRESS (-ION OF) THE LAW, unrighteousness.

It also helps when you understand that anomia is a compound Greek work, “a”, without + “nomos”, law.

Admittedly, from the definition, you COULD choose to render the word as wickedness or iniquity. But how did the people of this time understand this word? We are blessed to have the Greek Septuagint to shed light on their understanding. For those who don’t know, the Septuagint is the Greek translation of the Old Testament, penned around 350 BC and was probably translated from a Hebrew text very similar to that used by Yeshua and His disciples.
Of course, the people of the first century AD didn’t have a New Testament to refer to…it was just then being lived out and wouldn’t be compiled for another couple hundred years. So, their understanding of this concept…albeit in Hebrew / Aramaic…would harken back to the OT…verses like the following:

1 Blessed are the undefiled in THE WAY, who WALK IN THE LAW OF THE LORD.
2 Blessed are they that KEEP HIS TESTIMONIES, and that seek him with the whole heart.
3 They also DO NO INIQUITY: they WALK IN HIS WAYS.
4 Thou hast commanded us to KEEP THY PRECEPTS diligently.
5 O that my ways were directed to KEEP THY STATUTES!
6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have RESPECT UNTO ALL THY COMMANDMENTS. (Ps 119:1-6)

…where we see the linkage among all these terms…THE WAY, LAW, TESTIMONIES, INIQUITY, PRECEPTS, STATUTES, COMMANDMENTS.
In the Septuagint, LAW is “nomos” and the word, INIQUITY, is once again “anomia” and it’s obvious that the intent here IS the Torah…so too, then, 2 Peter 3:17.

Shalom

[ruinsonahillmedia]

So, I'm respectfully pushing back in your first critique of 119's teaching structure when you say that they isolate one passage of scripture (Matthew 5:17-20) and then "reinterpret" Paul to fit their false interpretation of Matthew 5. Excuse me, but ... how can you possibly arrive at this conclusion? The fact is, 119 uses a large quantity of scripture in all of their teachings, they allow scripture to instruct scripture, and - using scripture - they address counter-arguments point-by-point. Besides that, words mean things. When Jesus says that great will be those who uphold even the least commandment, are you suggesting that He is not referring to the commandments of the Torah ... the very commandments that He took on flesh to teach and live-out? How could Jesus be the Word (the Law and the Prophets and the Writings) made flesh, and then teach against these very same things? When John defined "sin" as being tantamount to "lawlessness" (1 John 3:4, which says, "Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness" BSB), are you suggesting that sin is defined by the breaking some other kind of legal code such as, oh, say, the laws of Rome? Of course not! There is only one Law being referred to here. Perhaps, if you have not done so already, you might still benefit from watching 119's videos, "Which Law, Paul?" (Part 4 of the Pauline Paradox series) as well as "Dead To The Law?" I'll end with this: If Paul actually taught against the relevance of the Law of Moses in the lives of those coming to faith in Christ, why, then, did he circumcise Timothy AFTER the Council of Jerusalem? Indeed, the last few chapters of Acts describe how Paul responded to the FALSE accusation by his fellow Jews that he was teaching against the Law of Moses, which led to the series of events that landed him in Rome. Romans 7:12, 13: "So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good. Did that which is good (the Law), then, become death to me? Certainly not! But in order that sin might be exposed as sin, it produced death in me through what was good (the Law) so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful." In other words, Paul never once taught against Torah-observance, rather, he clarified how, to the sinner living in the flesh, efforts to follow the law are useless and, in fact, the Law stirs-up the sinful nature (think of those who delight in breaking things they already know to be morally right), but for those who have been made alive in Christ, the Spirit now empowers them to obey the Law (including the Ten Commandments) from a heart of love, gratitude, and humility. In "Dead to the Law, " 119 quotes Andy Stanley who stated that we are not obligated to obey the Ten Commandments. Really? See where this unbiblical dichotomy leads? Logically, then, Andy should have just simply told Christians that God doesn't expect us to not steal, lie, covet, murder, commit adultery, etc.? This absurd statement from a prominent pastor confirms the many biblical warnings against false teachers, in this case, a teacher whose bad theology grew from the "Christians are no longer to obey God's Law" seed. Just read Psalm 119! Is Psalm 119 no longer Spirit-inspired scripture, but other Psalms, the ones that tickle our ears, still are? Since when do we get to pick and choose? Please understand, my primary goal is not the defending of 119 Ministries, rather, now that I can see for myself (with their initial help, I admit) that Paul wrote about 7 different types of "law, " I now can't go back to believing from Romans 6:14 that Paul was saying that the "law" we are no longer under is the Law of Moses ... not when the context DOES make it clear that we are no longer under the law of sin and death, which he goes on to clarify in Romans 7 and 8. Remember: The sin at Sinai was NOT about creating a golden calf to worship a false god, rather, it was the sin of the Israelites starting to worship God IN THEIR OWN WAY ... just like we do when we brush aside God's commandments (including His set-aside holy days designed to have us worshiping Him in the ways that HE desires). We have become so piously-arrogant in our own self will! No wonder Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23:
"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, ’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’ ... referring to the Torah.

[charitybrook]

I am sorry that you feel you need to twist scripture to make your point... 😔
Peter tells us exactly what you say he does not, but you left out those following verses. He says that misunderstanding Paul's letters leads to lawlessness.

So 119 is not off base at all in saying that Paul is hard to understand when it comes to matters of the law. Anyone who actually cares about what God thinks should test everything. Including this video, which is deceptive.