Paul Mason - is capitalism dead? | Guardian Live

In the wake of the financial crisis and with the rapid rise of new technologies, award-winning economist and journalist, Paul Mason, believes we are on the cusp of a seismic economic shift, of a kind yet to be seen in human history.
At a Guardian Live event, he takes on Douglas Murray, associate director of the Henry Jackson Society and Spectator columnist, Zoe Williams, Guardian columnist, Julia Powles, a lawyer working on technology law and policy at the University of Cambridge and the Guardian, and Pat Kane, writer, musician, activist & director of The Play Ethic to offer a powerful critique of why capitalism has failed us. The event, held on 22 July was chaired by the editor of The Observer, John Mulholland.

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[saayagain]

@1:29:41 

This is the problem. She says Rockefeller brought cheap oil to people. First of all, he didn't do it by himself. Second of all, he didn't adhere to the principles of the free market. He destroyed competition and created a monopoly.

Individuals are involved in a complex interconnected system which we can call society. Mr Rockefeller didn't invent the tech used to get oil, refine it and distribute it. He was just an administrator. Yet, he gets all the profits and retains most of the wealth created by other people.

She mentions that the consumer is king in a free market capitalist world. This is shortsighted because it assumes that the consumers knows all the relevant information required to make the best decision possible. This is never the case. There are many factors that cause people to deviate from what is 'best'. For example, if an advert shows me how cool a new sports car is but it costs so much that I have to borrow money to buy it, my love for the car will override the acknowledgement of the consequences of lending money and whether I can pay for it in the future. The perfect market doesn't exist. Therefore people take advantage of the imperfectness. This will always happen. This is how you can make a profit. 

Also, reducing people down to individuals is a divide and conquer tactic. It denounces the act of collective decision making which effects the profits of big business. I think this is to do with fundamentalist individualism. Everything is about the individual and should be individual-centric. The burden lies with you and whatever happens is your fault. This dogma needs to be eradicated. It is rare that the individual is 100% culpable for their action.

[lesliewhite]

Hmmm....I've read quite a few of the comments here, and many have missed the point, it's not just capitalism that is in it's death throws (It's based on infinite growth, which is frankly insane logic), but also the old socialist/communist idealogy, trying to fit those ideaologies into the new tech/info age just won't work.

[monkey]

just finished reading PostCapitalism. well worth the time to gain other perspectives on how we live and how we could live. Nonetheless, I was disappointed he didn’t include animal exploitation and environmental damage caused by it. He correctly identifies many of the dangers facing humanity and writes it’s absurd that we can change from a 40, 000 year old system of gender oppression, but not see the utopia of a revised economic system. Yet he doesn’t see beyond carbon damage to the bred animal pollution. Worse, he writes of automating society to free humans from work, but includes “meat-packing” machines. Should slaughter be by machine too? I like much of what he writes, but he should consider detrimental aspects of the energy and economics of animals as food… meatless eating is a solution addressing many of the issues raised in his book.

[patrickholt]

What an incredibly out of touch, unrepresentatively privileged and complacent bunch of people this was, barring Paul Mason. The Guardian is part of the problem, the class newspaper of the wrong class at the wrong time.

[luciatilyard]

No reason why traditional socialism isn't adaptable to modern life. It's about equality, a society where people are close to equal is by far the happiest, cant really see why technology should alter that.

[JAMAICADOCK]

The poor girl on the council estate who can't pay down the higher purchase for the fridge will hardly place that much strain on the economy - given the bailiffs will just go in. 

The problem for the Neo Capitalists is the large petty bourgeois they have endeavored to build up over the last 40 years - in the main part for political reasons. An enlarged middleclass that would neutralize working-class suffrage. The so-called Stakeholder Society as Tony Blair coined it


A petty bourgeois that is now demanding free-college education and a place on the property ladder for their kids. Fine when the middle-class was a relatively small demographic - however now its swollen to around 60 percent of the population that's a big rod for the government's back

All of which will have to be serviced by cheap credit - given the rich still appear reluctant to cough up.

[r.p.]

Douglas Murray are you speaking about Britain alone? Because I must say that, as far as the EU is concerned: you are wrong,  so wrong, about the new neoliberalism not rejoicing the the misery, bankruptcies, etc of all the productive groups of society. In Portugal, taking the advantage of the Troika that was (and still is but subliminally because of the upcoming elections) the official speech.  And I'm not mentioning "working class" because it's not about the WK alone: it's about the Middle Class, it's about small and medium businesses, it'a about anyone that's not either 1) politician on the far right;  2) a venture capitalist.

[naturalisted]

Stockholm's Syndrome is what we're seeing now in regards to the masses trying to reject automation, but the progression from Stone tools to Metal ones was inevitable- although people could have (at their own detriment) rejected Metal tools - and we have to make people see that rejecting automation for the purpose of keeping the drudgery of Capitalism going is beyond foolish. Who washes their dishes or clothes by hand when we have machines that do it and use Less water and electricity?! For a summary of all of the benefits of automation please read my short story; The Good, The Bad, and The Utility (google it) and it explains the psychological, physical, and environmental (along with others) benefits of moving forward with the great Gift that is automation.

[Peice]

I don't think the people on the panel even understand what paul mason is saying. The implications of unlimited uncontrollable ubiquitous information. It is mind blowing and something I have never considered I am going to have to pick up the book and see how he lays his assertions out.

[adamchilds]

Is Murray Douglas dishonestly missing the point on purpose or is he just being stupid. One of the main points being made is that modern capitalism is starving the real economy with interest rents and halting wages. Whether people can avoid falling into dept by cancelling Christmas or living on bread and water is not the point. The point is that economy is being supported by dept so a really disciplined general public can only lead to more stagnation or even worse a recession.

[imnobodyatall]

You guys, when you sell your books, do you try and get the best deal or do you say, try and take some dosh then put it on kindle for free?

[ianmclean]

I quite like listening to Paul mason but the guardian is a teenage magazine for people who menstruate or wish that they did.

[DannyOConnor]

1:33:40 for approx 50 seconds. The silence of realization after "...in this discussion." I think says a lot

[alessandroscott]

we need a panel made up of educated people that live below the poverty line. "is capitalism dead?" should be titled Capitalism has failed miserably and we've had the technological know how to create a type one civilisation for at least thirty years so let's start. Here are some people/organisations with realistic strategies for creating a sustainable socio-equal economy. Buckminster Fuller, Jacque Fresco and The Venus Project, The Zeitgeist Movement to name a few.

[Bunjee]

Intellectual property is actually incompatible with the ideal free market

[MrSampurchase]

If Zoe Williams was as comfortable hearing other people from opposing positions as she is her own voice she'd be much more enlightening.

[shazkaur]

Incredible how unappealing the right is when the left is not on the defensive

[tomgeorgearts]

The lady that said 'how can you make all this easier to understand?', they completely ignored her question!

[growthandunderstanding]

"The nakedness of economic force."  I think a better term is the corruption that comes when all the power is in the hands of a small group that will use their strength to serve their own desires with total disregard for the needs of the vast majority of people.

[hairetikos]

@1:02:20 What the fuck! 3 sample sets is not 3 data points...