The Argument Hitchens Struggled with the Most! | The Teleological Argument

--This argument is a famous and enduring argument for the existence of God. Hitchens himself even struggled with reconciling the fine tuning of the universe within a materialistic framework.

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Books referred to in this video:

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#teleo #apologetics #finetune #proofofgod #christopherhitchens #creation #universe #multiverse

[GeoffBoulton]

Ultimately, it's just a special pleading logical fallacy. I can explain something really complicated by imagining something even more complicated. - So where did the even more complicated thing come from? - It's always existed and didn't need anything to create it.

[orver]

What an astounding coincidence that I found my keys last night under the streetlight! No, for it is the only place the keys could be found.

[MusikeXavier]

Just like the puddle of water that thinks that the hole in which it lies was explicitly designed to hold it. And that's the best argument for the existence of god...please!!!

[uninspired]

Worded another way, if things were different they wouldn't be the same!

[BradReddekopp]

One cannot say what the odds are for the universe having turned out as it did because we don't have any way of knowing how many ways it _could_ have turned out. Is it billions of trillions or is it one? We just don't know.

[billjohnson]

1:50 - there is no actual science to the conjecture that any changes in the constants would prevent the universe from forming as claimed. This is often repeated, but there is no demonstration of its truth. Just as there is no reason to think any of the properties are not basic properties of physics, like the mass of electrons and the speed of light.

[barneymeister]

it is written

'yea and behold the puddle smiled... fully contented in its meaningfulness. Indeed how could it possibly be otherwise that I fit so perfectly into this place at this time?'

praise be the FSM and may their noodly tendrils nestle you gently, oh may they Indeed!

[Roadrunner]

Just show me “God.” I’ll wait.
The argument lapses. “Somebody HAD to have done this…” Is not a logical argument.

[darrenengels]

In order to legitimately judge the provenance of the universe, we need to know whether other universe-like things are created mostly by nature or mostly by design. Since we cannot do this,  the Teleological Argument is invalid. To use the terminology of those who classify fallacies, it rests "on an induction of one".

[orver]

The fine tuning argument is nonsense. It is circular reasoning to say gods exist becsuse the universe has been fine tuned. It assumes a tuner. Nothing about the nature of these constants suggest gods or goddesses made the universe.

[royhiggins]

I don't believe in a God and I am grateful. But let's be clear...if there is a God I am grateful. That's the real point! None of us really know anything about a God and any claim otherwise is just pretense. I am grateful that the brain I was given by a God or through evolution and reproduction was able to overcome the brainwashing of my youth. I am grateful that I don't believe in resurrections, demons, devils or eternal torture. I am grateful that I can accept and be empathetic to those who are not like myself. I have no problems with immigrants (illegal or otherwise), Transgender, Homosexual, Muslim, Mormon, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, People of Color, Albinos or Wiccan. I am grateful that I can see that once you can become comfortable forcing your beliefs upon others...is the moment when your beliefs start to divert from idiosyncratic to a group think that can embrace evil entities like the Trump-Republican-Jesus Taliban. A group think that embraces Fox news as they demonize the LBGT community as this real world consequence leads to murder and harm. A group think that denies the science of climate change and vaccines that helps lead the world to a more dangerous place. A group think that forces raped women and children to give birth even though they actually believe the majority of those born will burn in eternal suffering. I am grateful that I can see the beauty in science and truth and I am grateful that I can face my life with bravery, courage and not the fear of the unknown and death.

[orver]

The idea that it's improbable is nonsense. Unlike dice, constants can never be measured to have any other value. No divergent data to measure probability distribution. You can’t quantify the probability of something you can’t observe. Dice with sixes on every side could not be used to find the probability of rolling a different number. Constants are sixes on all sides.

[Longtack]

Just look at that invisible wall around the puddle of water - God's perfect fit. Hitchens didn't "struggle" with anything except his mortality from drinkin' n smokin'.

[mathmatica]

I mean I have the mathematics which shows the necessity of the multiverse. I don't see how that disproves God however.

[jonathanjackson]

Douglas Adams did not struggle with it

[paulsmart]

Well, Hitchens didn't tell you it's a serious argument.

He told you it's an idea that bears thinking about.

It's not a serious argument.

Your thinking isn't honest.

You assume impossible for intelligence to exist without exactly the set of physical laws our universe possess... and so we should assume an intelligence that exists without them.

It's "Lame" to suppose unproven things like a multiverse might exist, but also "lame" to not simply assume there are a variety of alternate sets of physical laws which the universe might have "rolled"

And that gets into what's actually going on here, what this "argument" actually is.

We don't know why things are the way the are, and so you place your god in the gap.

The question of why things are the way they are is an idea that bears thinking about.

But you're not making a serious argument.

[theklaus]

Remember he dyed 11 years ago. If you have an infinite universe then you pr definition must have a part of the universe where life exists. Anthropolig principle- life is allowed because we are here so therefore dna might be otherwise in a different so called fine tuning universe. We don’t know if there is life in these parts. We just know our definition of life couldn’t exist there. And so on. You or any can’t disprove that argument. So it doesn’t make sense even arguing about it. We only know dna life ( or rna ) mirror universe? Etc. It just seems to be a waste of time and place 😊🎸 all evolution points towards simplicity. And not complexity. So this ( theistic argument) is opposite of what we observe !second law of Thermodynamic . Complexity comes after simplicity.

[AgnosticSpaceCreature]

only god and we came about through evolution, no devil no hell, only man woman and God's love, god will never be proved and that's why I know it's real

[talkingshite]

It's not aligned perfectly though, it just is.