NASA | Glory: The Cloud Makers

This segment provides an introduction to aerosols- their varied sources, brief lifetimes, and erratic behavior. Glory's APS will help researchers determine the global distribution of aerosol particles. This unique instrument will unravel the microphysical properties of aerosols, and will shed light on the chemical composition of natural and anthropogenic aerosols and clouds.

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[mallardhead]

@Shift4chizzle
obviously you were ... but it allowed me to make a parallel comparison. Thanks!

[RadicalOne]

[cont'd]
The effects of increased greenhouse gases is a perfect example. While intuition and the simpler models suggested that it would simply result in rising temperatures, it has caused global rainfall redistribution, ocean acidity changes, ocean current redirects, storms that follow unusual paths, cold snaps in unlikely places, and decades of drought in some places.

Noone foresaw such a thing. 'Influence' is useless without control, particularly for unilateral intentions like war.

[WeAreTheRobots]

@mallardhead
I will have to reply the rest in a few days, but for now I just wanted to shortly clarify this:
I think I was very clear, since I said "addressing deforestation issues", i.e., problems.
Is deforestation an issue (problem) to solve? Yes!

[mallardhead]

@1RadicalOne
very circumstantial, surely, but a lack on govt's part to even address the circumstance causes the questions .. never said govt DID it .. only that govt does not address in a way that satisfies the public .. and it's, "Ooh, LOOK! Those aerosol contrail from those unexplained jets criss-crossing the sky came before the weather." .. If govt said, "ooh, look, the airport was busy today" handling a lot of extra jets and they left lots of contrails. That might help quiet speculation.

[RadicalOne]

Actually, no. The engines I work with operate only in space. If you were to try to run them on the surface, they would probably melt, explode, or simply fail to start. Perhaps all three.

[RadicalOne]

The engines I work with could get up to close to the speed of light....if they were left in operation for extended periods of time. Realistically, however, they would run at most for a few years - and even that is only for interstellar distances - and achieve velocities of maybe c/6 to c/2.

[mallardhead]

@1RadicalOne
I used 'control' in my last post. 'Control' is the overall goal and will require lots more tech. In my other posts I said 'influence'. I understand the complexities, but if I can influence severe weather I can actually control large areas of the world, causing some to prosper and others to fail. It wouldn't take much. Butterflies? I'd be Mothra, if you know Godzilla characters. I'd be Chaos incarnate. Ever heard of HAARP, heating the ionosphere?

[mallardhead]

@1RadicalOne
The "good" is I can do something, generally, that impacts others and makes them divert resources and $, distracting them from other things I'm doing. -It may not just be weather, but also hybrid seeds that prevent sterile seeds from sprouting next season (Monsanto has these already), or heavy metals in the drinking water sources, etc. -And do you really know how little energy is needed to influence moderate sections of the atmo? Aerosols aren't that hard to introduce either -more

[RadicalOne]

Power and wealth will do you little good if you end up causing the climate of wherever you live to fundamentally flip, like the way Europe will freeze, the way Africa is drying out, and the way South Asia and coastal areas are being flooded.


I am an engineer, not a climatologist. I work with spacecraft engines, not weather systems.

[RadicalOne]

OK, I appear to have misunderstood you.

Assuming that the weather was caused - an assertion that would need to be proven in itself - I see no reason why the government would know about it. Indeed, given the nature you ascribe to it, it is by definition something that would be kept secret.
That silence is probably a lack of realization that anything has even happened.

[mallardhead]

@1RadicalOne
but then again maybe not ... criss-cross is a pattern and extra jets can't explain that kind of pattern ... and the chemtrails are actually at lower altitudes than contrails usually form. (My bad using 'contrails'.) .. So a busy airport may not suffice to stem the questions or conspiracy theory.

[JoeOf]

out of curiosity, what happens if you boil a water above the cloud? where would the water vapor go?

[mallardhead]

@1RadicalOne
No Lifters? Gotcha! Still, excellent occupation. When can we expect FTLs?

[RadicalOne]

Generation ships? Certainly feasible, but who is going to pay for what would be a multi-trillion-dollar craft, one so massive it would have to be built in space and with the cooperation of every developed nation on the planet?

[mallardhead]

@1RadicalOne
I did not get there! You misquote me! I never said, "they did it" (chemtrails)... It's not that govt did anything, expressly, but they could and should know if someone is/has; and their silence makes them look awfully suspicious.

[mallardhead]

@1RadicalOne
I know it's not yours exclusively! Take the compliment on behalf of all your fellow engineers! .. No! Generation ships, eh? ... Maybe sci fi is right and we have to run the gambit of current options, but I was hoping you believed in the inspired creativity of humanity that might EUREKA new options that bypass the lot... and actually space is much more full of stuff today than they thought was there when I was just a kid.

[WeAreTheRobots]

@mallardhead
"H2O is the major. It's not been addressed. "
Excellent. That clearly shows you are not following the literature, so there is not much more to argue with you (for now). Update yourself, the role of H2O has been in discussion for a LONG time. I could give references, but I'm short of time. Refer to RealClimate and SkepticalScience (sites I've posted) for links to papers. You might not agree on the conclusions, but you will see that the role of H2O has been discussed extensively.

[mallardhead]

@1RadicalOne
I understood you completely! I used your example as if it were possible (and it is). But govt did not even say that! They act as if none of it happens when the pics and vids are right there. So their silence screams volumes. -My "proof" is their silence and those pics and vids. Something happened. They say nothing about it. It is govt's job to keep folk fully informed and for some reason they will not. Why?

[WeAreTheRobots]

@mallardhead
That doesn't disprove AGW. It's nonetheless consistent with people using a REAL problem to become rich / richer. That this kind of attitude exists shouldn't be news for anyone.

[RadicalOne]

What good is influence if you cannot control it? For all the would-be aggressor knows, they may well cause a disaster on their own soil, and cause prosperity for their enemy. The feedback systems are complex in ways that are not even fully understood.

Besides, the energies required are enormous. Think about how much energy the sun pours in, and the fact it takes THAT to really 'drive' the weather.

[cont'd]