One Opinion the GM Ben Finegold Doesn't Agree With

#benfinegold #chess #magnuscarlsen #hansniemann

[playtoearnmeta]

My takeaway from this is never cheat because once you get caught you'll always be suspected to be a cheater. Hans really ruined his career with this...

[mbealhighjump]

Cheating a few times when you’re young doesn’t mean you’re currently cheating. However, the idea that Hans ONLY cheated twice & just so happened to get caught both times is unbelievable.

[prohacvice]

He cheated at 13 and 16 and is now 19. There's no proof of cheating at 19. How much did he cheat? Were there instances of cheating in the years between? The problem with cheating is that often times it's related to mindset. Some people would never cheat and some people could consider it. The suspicion is justified, but innocent until proven guilty must be the MO.

[Ytremz]

Honestly, people just took the adage "Once a cheater, always a cheater" and extended it to chess.

[YellowwFellow]

Yeah once a cheater, always a cheater doesn't apply here. This isn't about relationships where he shows patterns of committing adultery to every girlfriend he has. This is completely different. He isnt that much of an idiot to throw his life away to get higher rating points in matches that matter.

[acpliego]

This is why I follow Finegold, there's also his chess lectures and jokes but mainly this....

[r.mcdonnell]

I think "once an xyz, always an xyz" is a bad way to think about/judge people in general

And yeah...there's dumb shit I would've done at 16 that I never would've done at 19

[jasmint]

Teenagers change INCREDIBLY fast. Holding people that age in a mold can set up lots of pain and dysfunction in lots of people's lives.

[StygianStyle]

Magnus's decisions are very hard to understand. For instance, why is he still competing in chess, but won't play Nepo to defend his title?

[logant]

The bottom line is that if Magus had evidence of cheating he would present it publicly.
He won't accuse Hans on camera because he knows he'd be hit with legal action.
Put up or shut up.

[albertbatfinder]

If ever Ben is called up for jury duty, that panel will be privileged to serve with him. He may be right, he may be crazy, but he’s a slave to logic.

[kylezo]

"If he's cheating in the sinquefield cup, okay, then that's different. Then, you know, Magnus is almost"

GM Ben Finegold, 2022.

[benh]

Magnus took his ball and went home. His immature actions don't resemble those of a world chess champion.

[Lireoec]

The thing is, the cat's out of the bag now. He's cheated before so even if he doesn't cheat anymore, the damage to his reputation has been done and no amount of goodwill will be able to cast aside future suspicion from a psychological and trust perspective. Magnus protesting blatantly doesn't help...

[franklinturtle]

I would definitely be more suspicious of Hans based on these facts.

[slicktrickyes]

“Recognize what is in front of you, and what is hidden from you will be revealed. There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed.” - Some Guy

[CarlDidur]

19 is still a kid, really, and just never cheat IMHO. Thanks for the vids.

[alexandernipracs]

GM Ben is right. This applies to things other than being a cheater or not, such as being honest or a liar, being good or bad, etc. We are neither sincere nor liars, if being is understood as being-always. Because anyone always has the possibility to tell the truth or lie. Just as anyone always has the possibility of doing something good or bad. For a person to really be sincere he would have to be incapable of lying. And for someone to be a liar, they would have to be incapable of telling the truth. But we know that is not so. We generalize, from some cases, a universal statement that aims to understand the totality of something or someone, often based on frequency, repetition. This is induction. And it has no logical support to infer the universal from the particular.

The Aristotelian doctrine of being in act and being in potency. We are potentially both sincere and liars. But in act we will be either one or the other, or none of them. If I lie, then when I lie, I'm being a liar. If I tell the truth, then when I tell it, I'm being honest. If I don't lie or tell the truth, I'm neither being a liar nor being sincere.

Being sincere or lying is not a property [inseparable and necessary] of the "subject" as "living being", "human being", etc.

The same for being a cheater or not. Just because someone has always cheated [until now] doesn't mean they will cheat in the future. However, we no longer trust the person because of their history, as we believe they will relapse into the act of cheating. Or, if we don't believe he will reoffend, at least we believe he has a better chance, is more likely to reoffend than a person with no history of cheating.

[salmonsandwich]

hell, I'm still not entirely convinced Kasparov vs. Karpov wasn't prearranged. My evidence? Bobby Fischer said so, and I like that dude

[guywhoneversleeps]

i dont know anyoen legitimate who actually made that argument, that it must mean he is cheating. however, previous cheating still does ruin a reputation, and definitely does mkae suspicious events harder to give benefit of the doubt (although that is not necessarily the situation here).