How Do You Make a Biblical Case for the Trinity?

Brett Kunkle of Stand to Reason explains how to make a biblical case for the Trinity.

#StandtoReason #Apologetics #Christianity

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[javierdelgado]

Using the the baptism of Jesus for the proof of the Trinity is a real reach .

[dagwould]

A great illustration of the Trinity is the operation of a typical commercial partnership. The details depend on your local corporations law, but in general, say three people are in a partnership to run a business, they are all jointly and severally liable for the actions and obligations of the partnership. Any one can bind the partnership, a delivery by any is the partnership making a delivery, and money paid to any of them discharges the debt.

For example there's a president, a treasurer and the operations manager. All are equal partners. If the president makes an agreement to sell a product, the partnership is committed to sell the product. If the customer obtains the product from the operations manager, the partnership has delivered. If the customer pays the treasurer, the partnership has been paid. So all have made the agreement, delivered the product and been paid, but in different individuals for each transaction.

Yet no one wonders at the 'mystery' of the commercial partnership and wonders how it can work, let alone exist.

[anitabezanson]

What is your Roku channel code? Would love to watch on Roku

[mitchellc]

Hello

How many persons is “he”?

Are there any verses where someone refers to God as “they” or “them”??

Surely if God is multiple persons you could show a verse where some refers to God as multiple persons? (They)

[mattneff]

I’ve always had trouble wrapping my mind around this —-

So 3 distinct aspects are the one God…

Can the three distinct act independently on one another?

[michaelh.]

The trinity started during the Nicean Creed which took several years and meetings to define. If you didn't believe in the trinity after the established Nicean Creed you were ran out of power, ran out of your country and/ or even killed. Funny how Catholics were the ones who established the Nicean Creed and all the other denominations turned away from the Catholics- but yet still held their Biblical faiths. No one comes to the thought of a trinity from merely reading the Bible. It is taught into scripture and never from it. Prior to the Nicean Creed, the Biblical faiths were monotheistic. Man changed it. In my opinion, professing Jesus to be God is idolatry. Jesus said that he would leave us with a comforter, aka Holy Spirit, so since I have been baptized and received the Holy Spirit, does that make me God?? I mean after all, when a man cleaves to his wife they are one. Does that mean that my wife is me and now I have to wear tampons too? NO! Jesus was sent here to not only provide a path for humanity with God but also to show us how to live. Jesus prayed and consulted with God. When we receive the Holy Spirit, we have that same right. Final point, our forefathers were not trinitarians.

[ErikBraganca]

John 17:11 I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them safe in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one. 

does that make us part of the trinity ? 

i don't mean to be rude, take care .

[linuxisbetter]

Can you explain why the inference that there is a trinity (three persons) is better than the inference that the Bible just contradicts itself?

[beanymane]

Can God die?

We can begin with a simple statement made by the prophet Habakkuk over 600 years before Jesus lived on earth.

Are you not from long ago, O God? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die. (Habakkuk 1:12)

This means that the God of the Jews existed before all times, He has always existed and will always exist. He never dies!

Other Scriptures that Jesus and the Jews believed about this basic understanding about God can be found in the following verses:

Blessed be Lord, the God of Israel from time indefinite to time indefinite. (1 Chronicles 16:36)

Blessed may you be, O Lord the God of Israel our father, from time indefinite even to time indefinite. (1 Chronicles 29:10)

Rise, bless God your God from time indefinite to time indefinite. (Nehemiah 9:5)
Remember your mercies, O God, and your loving-kindnesses, for they are from time indefinite. (Psalm 25:6)

Blessed be God the God of Israel from time indefinite even to time indefinite. Amen and Amen. (Psalm 41:13)

Before the mountains themselves were born, or you proceeded to bring forth as with labor pains the earth and the productive land, even from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God. (Psalm 90:2)

Your throne is firmly established from long ago; You are from time indefinite. (Psalm 93:2)

But the loving-kindness of God is from time indefinite even to time indefinite. (Psalm 103:17)

Blessed be God the God of Israel From time indefinite even to time indefinite. (Psalm 106:48)

Let the name of God become blessed from time indefinite even to time indefinite, for wisdom and mightiness—for they belong to him. (Daniel 2:20)

When the Bible states that God is "from time indefinite even to time indefinite" it is really saying that God has forever existed in the past, He always exists in the present, and He will always exist in the future. Again, the basic thought about God is that He never dies!.

Athanasian Creed. The Trinity dogma.

The Trinity- Man made dogma vs The Scriptures.

Here is point 1 of 2

All I ask is before you reply to me to read in your own bible the quoted scriptures. Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally. (That is nice of them!!!) That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another, that of the Holy Spirit still another.

But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty co-eternal. What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated. The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable. The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being. So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings; there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being. Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings; there is but one almighty being. Thus the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. Yet there are not three gods; there is but one God. Thus the Father is Lord the Son is Lord, the Holy Spirit is Lord. Yet there are not three lords; there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us to confess each person individually as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords. The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons; there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits. Nothing in this trinity is before or after, nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are co-eternal and coequal with each other. So in everything, as was said earlier, we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved should think thus about the trinity. But it is necessary for eternal salvation hat one also believe in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully. Now this is the true faith: That we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God and human, equally. He is God from the essence of the Father, begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human, yet Christ is not two, but one. He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself. He is one, certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person. For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human

He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

Bible Scriptures that contradicts the Athanasian Creed (Trinity Dogma)

1A. Col 1:15, He is the image of the invisible God THE FIRST-BORN OF EVERY CREATURE.


1C. So why is Jesus called "the first-born of all creation, How can he be subservient to another if he is Almighty God?

2A. John 8:42, Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me

2B. Why did Jesus say he did not come of his "own initiative" but was "sent forth"? So he is saying here that he was asked to go and if that is the case who sent Almighty God?

3A. Luke 4:43, But he said to them: “I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God to other cities, because for this I was sent”.

3B. So who sent Jesus to do the preaching? Also who is the greater, the sender or the one sent and if so who sent Almighty God?

4A. Matt 24:36. “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father”.

4B. Mark 13:32 “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father.

4C. Why did Jesus not know "the day or the hour" of the Great Tribulation but only God did? If Jesus is God Almighty (as Trinitarians believe) Then this is either a contradiction or their God is telling lies and does the Father know something that the Holy Spirit does not know? If so, how can they be co-equal If only the Father knows the day and hour of the Second Coming of Christ?.

5A. Matt 6:9, “You must pray, then, this way:“‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.

5B. Should he not have said “LET MY NAME BE SANCTIFIED”?

6A. John 17:1. Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you.

6B. Who did Jesus speak to in prayer?

7A . John 14:28. You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.

7B. Why did Jesus say "the father is great than I am"? If Jesus is Almighty God how can he be greater than himself

8A Heb. 9:24, For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he now appears before* God on our behalf.

8B. How did Jesus "appear before the person of God for us?" How can you come before someone and be that person?

9A. Matt 3:17, Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”

9B.Who spoke to Jesus at the time of his baptism, saying, "this is my son"?

10A.1 Tim 2:5, For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.

10B. How can Jesus be the "mediator between God and man" if he is Almighty God?

11A.1 Cor 11:3, But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man, in turn, the head of the Christ is God.

11B.Why did Paul say "the head of Christ is God"and how can Almighty God be subordinate to any one or anything?

12A 1 Cor 15:24, 28, Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the So himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all thing to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

12B. How can Jesus "hand over the kingdom to his God" if he is Almighty God and how can Almighty God subject himself to Almighty God and If the Son is eternal and immutable (unchangeable), how can the reign of the Son come to an end?

13A. John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’

13B.To whom does Jesus refer to as "my God" and Father?

14A. Prov. 8:22-31. The LORD produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago. From ancient times I was installed, From the start, from times earlier than the earth. When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth, When there were no springs overflowing with water. Before the mountains were set in place, Before the hills, I was brought forth, When he had not yet made the earth and its fields Or the first clods of earth’s soil. When he prepared the heavens, I was there; When he marked out the horizon on the surface of the waters. When he established the clouds above, When he founded the fountains of the deep, When he set a decree for the sea That its waters should not pass beyond his order, When he established the foundations of the earth, Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time.

14B.To whom does this say is refer too prophetically?

15A. Psalms 110:1 THE LORD declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.

15B. How does Jesus (God Almighty) sit at (God Almighty) right hand?

16A. John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him

16B. Why does John say "no man has seen God at anytime" and how can God lay down in his own bosom?

17A. Luke 18:19, Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God.

17B. Why does Jesus ask not to be called "good, " saying "nobody is good except one, God"? is not Jesus Almighty God on earth and also the epitome of good?

18A. Dan 7:13, 14 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming;and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. And to him there were given rulership, honor and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His ruler-ship is an everlasting ruler-ship that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.

18B. Why does Daniel say "to him were GIVEN ruler-ship..."and how can Almighty God give himself rulership if he already has it?

19A. Ex. 33:20, But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.”

19B. How was Jesus dead and be God alive at the same time?

20A. Heb 5:7 During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favourably heard for his godly fear.

20B. Who was able to save Almighty God Jesus, so who was Almighty God Jesus praying too?

21A. Revelation 1:1 A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him.

21B. So who gave Almighty God/Jesus the revelation?

22A. Revelation 3:14“To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and truewitness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION BY GOD

22B. Jesus himself is saying here that he himself was was had a beginning and was created, yes?

23A. Mark 9:7. and a cloud formed, overshadowing them, and a voice came out of the cloud: “This is my Son, the beloved. Listen to him.

23B. Should that be listen to me not him?

24A. Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

24B. James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God can not be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

24C. James (Who was one of the Lords brothers and disciple) says God can not be tempted. Yet Matthew says he was tempted, This makes no sense.

25A. Act's 7:55, 56 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

25B. How could Jesus stand at God's right hand if he was God, also there is no mention of the Holy Spirit/Ghost, why is that?

26A. Acts 10:38. about Jesus who was from Nazareth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil. because God was with him.

26B. How can you be with some one and be that person at the same time, how can God Almighty be with God Almighty?

27A. Matthew 28:18. Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth

27B. Now If Jesus is God Almighty, who gave Almighty God all the authority in heaven and on earth? He did not say that he was given part of or shared but all authority, now that he has been given all the authority that means that the 2 other part of the Godhead, God the Father/God the Holy Spirit have now just become subordinate to the son, this makes no sense.

28A. John 7:16. Jesus responded to them, "What I teach doesn't come from me but from the one who sent me.

28B. What teaching did Jesus (Almighty God) give to Jesus (Almighty God) give? would not Almighty God already have it in the 1st place? Also if you come from that person and go back to that person, you can not be that person can you?

29A. John 5:17, But he answered them: “My Father has kept working until now, and I keep working.”

29B. Why is Jesus speaking as if he is a separate person, should the verse go like this? As I am Almighty God I have and still do keep on working.

30A. Matt. 20:20-23, “The mother of the sons of Zebedee said to him [Jesus], ‘Command that these two sons of mine may sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdom.’ But Jesus answered, . ‘You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.’”

30B. How strange, if, as claimed, Jesus is God! Was Jesus here merely answering according to his “human nature”? If, as Trinitarians say, Jesus was truly “God-man”—both God and man, not one or the other—would it truly be consistent to resort to such an explanation? Does not Matthew 20:23 rather show that the Son is not equal to the Father, that the Father has reserved some prerogatives for himself?)

31A. Hebrews 1:5, For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”

31B. How can he become the son of God if Jesus is already known as the Son of God

32A. Luke 6:12 On one of those days he went out to the mountain to pray, and he spent the whole night prayer to God

32B. How can Almighty God Jesus spend the whole night talking to Almighty God (Jesus) in Heaven in prayer and yet you say Jesus is Almighty God on earth, and yet how can he be in 2 places at the same time?

33A. Philippians 2:6-11. who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. More than that, when he came as a ma he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death yes, death on a tree For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

33B. 1, Who does almighty God need to be obedient to? 2, Who gave him the Highly esteemed name? 3, How is Almighty God able to give Almighty God a position above himself 4? How can God have a higher name than his own?

34A. John 11:41 So they took the stone away. Then Jesus raised his eyes heavenward and said: “Father, I thank you that you have heard me.

34B. 1, Who did Jesus (God Almighty in the flesh) look up into heaven and call someone his father, is he not the father on earth? 2, Who was it that heard Jesus so as to thank him? 3 How can there be 2 fathers and yet be in 2 places at the same time?

35A. Luke 22:18-30. “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

35B. To make a covenant with someone requires 2 persons, yes? So how can God make a covenant with himself.

36A. Mark.12:29. Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, God our God is one God.

36B. Here Mark is saying that God is one, not 3 in 1

37A. 1 Peter, 3:21.29. He is at God’s right hand, for he went to heaven, and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him

37B. Peter is saying that Jesus sits at God's right hand, how can that be if he is God Almighty, How can the angels and authorities be made subject to? Would he not already have all this in the 1st place.

38A. 1 Timothy 6:15, 16. which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see.

38B. Paul here is saying that God is immortal and no 1 has ever seen God at any time. How can that be if he is Almighty God? If that is the case where was God for 3 days when God died, Did God not exist for that amount of time?

39A. John 8:40. You are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.

39B. Jesus quoted here saying that he passed on the information from God, How can God pass on the information to himself.

40A. Matthew 8:10. When Jesus heard that, he was amazed and said to those following him: “I tell you the truth, with no one in Israel have I found so great a faith.

40B. How can God be amazed if he knows everything?

41A. Mark 5:30. Immediately Jesus realized in himself that power had gone out of him, and he turned around in the crowd and asked: “Who touched my outer garments”?

41B. If Gods know everything, would he not have known already as to who was going to touch his garment and when it was going to happen?

42A. Matt. 26:39 [Jesus prayed, ] “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” 42B. Who's will is God Almighty doing?

43A. Luke 5:16, Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed.

43B. To whom did God Almighty pray to? Remember that saying prayers to God is part of our highest form of worship, now ask who did God Almighty worship?

44A. Luke 12:10. And everyone who says a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven.

44B. If Son and Holy Ghost are co-equal persons in the Godhead, why is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost unforgivable but blasphemy of the Son is not?.

45A. John 14:26; 15:26. But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you, When the helper comes that I will send you from the Father, the spirit of the truth, which comes from the Father, that one will bear witness about me

45B. If the Holy Ghost is a co-equal member of the trinity, why does the Bible always speak of Him being sent from the Father or from Jesus?

46A 1. John 14:17, 23; the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you. In answer Jesus said to him: “If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.

46A 2. Romans 8:9; However, you are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit if God’s spirit truly dwells in you. But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this person does not belong to him.

46A 3. Ephesians 3:14-17. For this reason I bend my knees to the Father, to whom every family in heaven and on earth owes its name. I pray that he may grant you through the abundance of his glory to be made mighty in the man you are inside, with power through his spirit, and that through your faith you may have the Christ dwell in your hearts with love. May you be rooted and established on the foundation.

47B. Are there three Spirits in a Christian's heart? Father, Jesus, and the Spirit all dwell within a Christian and yet we read I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4 One body there is, and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; For by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one spirit. The quoted scriptures here are saying there is only one Spirit and how can 3 be 1 at the same time.

47A. John 5:19, 30; 6:38 Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Mosttruly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me. for I have come down from heaven to do, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me.

47B. Similarly, how can the Son not have any power except what the Father gives Him?

If you wish to know about part 2 let me know as it shows how and when the trinity dogma started..

[MrBears]

Jesus being God and Jesus being in flesh means the Trinity is isn’t a Trinity at all its 4 persons.