Edelrid Pinch accidental opening?!?

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Since we've been testing the @edelrid Pinch, it's hard to imagine accidentally opening the device while using it, however, there is always risk in climbing and at the end of the day, you have to make a judgement call as to wether or not you want to assume that risk. Always learn how the manufacturer of any device intends the product to be used, read the manual, and learn the potential modes of failure. Don't trust your life to any system you don't understand.

[Biamondos]

Wish they would've showed this from the get go lol. Thanks for sharing

[thialfi]

Thanks for the video. It's something I've been wondering and I've seen the lip designed into the belay loop section but hadn't seen that the button was a rocker. I think given the aspects you've mentioned it will be safe enough since you'd need 3 things to go wrong - press the button far enough in the right spot, wiggle past the belay loop and lift the side plate. In every situation I can think of (which are admittedly fairly basic) at least one of those things isn't going to be happening.

[LearningOfOld]

I’m getting one for tree work and will just have a little biner behind the attachment point

[rookiemoves]

Basically zero chance I would trust this for LRS without a biner through that loop. Could still use the belay loop attachment point and put a small biner through as a backup.

[Gorilla_Chaos]

They also recommend in the manual that you can add the locking carabiner on top of this so there’s two functional locks.
You can have redundancy in your belay clip. Kinda neat.

[testboga]

Beeners can open from route friction as well - even screw type. I don't see a major risk here. Using the traditional attachment comes with it's own risks - non locked beener, rope twisted mistake in rope direction.

[joshuasmith]

As unlikely as it may be, seems that you could depress the button while feeding slack. This could cause the device to be sideways and unloaded. Probably couldn't happen, but it would be nice to see tests of it being tried

[midMTB]

Appreciate the conversation points! I’ll stick with a triple lock carabiner on my Grigi style devices.

Do you have any concerns of excess wear on the belay loop?

[z]

Well, yes - it took him a fraction of the time it takes me to detach my belay locking biner, and he barely twisted it, not at all the 90 degree rotation as described by Edelrid. And in actual use, devices are simply not under any tension, most of the time. Just watch others in the gym, and see slack hanging, devices limp on the harness. Another long video shows the interviewer casually removing a loaded Pinch from the belay loop with no twist, just an inch of slack in the loop. Worst, earlier in the video the company rep admitted their earlier design had a three-step release, but dropped that as being "too complicated." Which is precisely what the UIAA has advocated for every belay carabiner, in order to minimize the chances for accidental opening. First Law of Rare Events: If anything can happen, it WILL happen. If this isn't rectified, I predict recalls, or else lawsuits.

[TrueHelpTV]

Dear God this is Death
-15 year Radio Tower Specialist

Relying on the rope to be what prevents the gate from swinging open should the button get depressed means you're now also relying on the stiffness and diameter of the rope in addition to the weight on the rope which might actually make it easier to flip the gate off the rope, or if its taking a side loaded fall and needs the rope to save the day because now your alignment to make the feature even work is gone on a side loaded fall with a panicked person death gripping and squeezing the button.
PLEASE add a secondary lock feature that requires the user to enact a force to the device which is opposite of the button. IE you need a force from the left to push the button, you need a force from the right to pull the pin.. no nobody will death grip it during a fall and open it, or side load it, button pops and the gate bypasses the rope and swings open..
But hey, I would love to play with one if youll send me one to test and send you some ideas.

[szabolcskiraly]

Just to be clear, the question is: can it be opened with that button while the cam is loaded, e.g. engaged: rope holding my climbing partner hanging in the air? Note: accidents come not from "proper belay technique". When in doubt you can use a biner just like with any other device...khmmm.. seriously??!

[kennethkuhlman]

Here's my points of why I didnt buy this and instead bought another GRIGRI.
1. As many reasons there are for why it wont open if using it correctly, there is no lock to the system. They are all "it shouldn'ts" with not a single "it can't". If I wanted to add a carabiner to the system, I'll just stay with my grigri.
2. You need a carabiner with it anyways to rack it on your harness, so theres no net savings of any weight on your body. If its possible to put on your harness without it, it would probably hang terribly. Maybe you stash it on an ice clipper? I could be wrong about this point though.
3. It's possible to load the rope incorrectly into the device (not talking about which side the climbers end comes out). But you can actually close the device with the climbers end sticking out of the wrong place. That is not possible with a grigri. The fact that you can though, problem. This problem alone would have caused me to fail this device if i worked for any of the agencies that certify climbing equipment. And I know we all do our pre-climb checks with the vision and focus of a laser beam, but thats just not true 100% of the time.
4. The bottom is open and could grab at something, whether your hand or clothing or rope. Not good. Granted, this can happen on the topside of any belay device. But why are they adding another.
5. This one is personal to me, but my gym only allows grigri's. No other brand or device is allowed. I dont agree with it, but its not changing.

This device needs another version to be a reliable and safe replacement of the grigri. The bottom side needs to be closed off, the rope channel needs to be solid and there needs to be some type of inherent locking mechanism to it, whether thats a bottom latch or a cover or something. There are already enough failure points in climbing, I dont need to add more. If you use the DMM Ceros carabiner with the grigri, it reduces even more failure points and makes it very lovely to use.

[apeiron]

you can put a carabiner tru the pinch metal ring while connected to belay loop: you'll still have the devide close to the body and have ZERO chance of opening it not even intentionally. You'll have to remove FIRST the carabiner and then open the PINCH

[poolkrooni]

A single lock switch would've maybe made this a very successful competitor for a gri gri... Weird that they didn't get this feedback in their testing phase.

[drstrangelove]

My concern would be that one opens it when feeding rope and pressing on the cam where the index finger is on the lip the middle finger is right where the bottom is.

[mikebularz]

This is fine for its main purpose of belaying the leader, its questionable when belaying the second as I often find the gri trying to sideload on slabby anchors. I would not carry this on every trip, as for instance long easy multi pitch simulclimbs, this scenario I wouldn't trust it as much as a gri

[eliottwiener]

Seems like it might be awkward to rack and unrack without using a biner. What was your impression of that aspect?

[drytool]

You could still put a carabiner through the hole without extending the device from the belay loop, couldn't you?

[paulmuadibatreid]

it's highly unlikely but it's impossible with a ball-lock or a screw-carabiner.

[teamneverlost]

So you literally can't open the device if loaded. You can't disconnect the device when connected directly to belay loop without opening the side plate.. So what's the plan to escape a belay if needed for rescue? This thing makes no sense