The Drydock - Episode 197 (Part 2)

00:00:00 - Intro

00:00:43 - I-19 hit on USS North Carolina

00:06:11 - What did ironclads do in the US Civil War?

00:08:39 - Pretty much all of the RFA fleet oilers and tankers of WW2, with the exception of the smaller Ranger-class, had a superstructure with funnel in the back and another superstructure in the middle of the ship. What were the main reasons for such a consistently split superstructure?

00:11:28 - During the Solomon Islands campaign when the IJN tried to run supplies in oil drums hoping to float them ashore, would they have in the short run been more successful if they made the oil drums look like contact mines to delay any USN approach to the barrels?

00:19:38 - 3 best/worst DD classes of WW2?

00:24:53 - Ships not being what you think they are?

00:28:41 - There are several famous examples of ships 'running away' to avoid their fate, such as HMS Warspite, HMS Vanguard and what was left of USS Oregon. Of all the breaks for freedom from the breakers yard that you know off, what would be your favorite?

00:30:59 - Human scale to battleship shells?

00:32:03 - If you could command one type one ship (eg Ship of the Line, Pre Dreadnought, Aircraft Carrier Etc) from any era or navy what would it be and why?

00:33:27 - USS San Diego recognition?

00:37:36 - How was the Laffey able to be put back into action after being nuked?

00:38:56 - Is it true that one of the early Lexington-class battlecruiser designs was similar to the British splendid cats?

00:43:07 - Give us a selection of the worst jobs any sailor had, civilian or military.

00:47:06 - Machine shops on USN ships?

00:54:00 - How would the Ise hybrids actually work?

00:57:01 - Which was more lethal to the battleship, Air power or Victory?

01:01:54 - Has a group of capital ships ever combined their reconnaissance floatplanes into a makeshift airgroup and conducted an airstrike in the fashion that we more typically see from carrier-based aircraft?

01:04:50 - USN FCS in WW2?

01:10:16 - Renaming ships after ships lost in the same conflict?

01:12:57 - Just how survivable was a battle ship if a shell managed to bypass the armor and nothing like a magazine exploded?

01:16:22 - What are your thoughts on the Ship of Theseus and and what type of refit or rebuild would constitute a new ship?

01:23:39 - What Carrier was a match for the Bearn?

01:26:02 - Sabaton's song 'Dreadnought'

01:29:56 - USN escorts and the attack on ON-92

01:34:26 - USS Arizona original name?

01:38:25 - Smoke shells for ranging?

01:41:32 - How were battleship turrets assembled?

01:45:39 - Hood/Iowa BC/BB debate?

01:47:04 - Can you elaborate on some of the preservation and anticorrosion measures used on museum ships?

01:53:07 - Suction when a ship sinks?

02:06:23 - Had Wasp (CV-7) survived the Guadalcanal Campaign. (Assume the torpedo salvo from I-19 either missed or hit other US Navy ships) Would it later join Saratoga and Enterprise as part of Task Force 38/58. Or would it be reassigned as a training carrier along with Ranger?

02:08:15 - Which weapon system was most successful in sinking capital ships in the European theatre during WW2? And was there a significant change during the war?

02:10:03 - How important was capturing Norway to the German Naval effort in WW2?

02:12:10 - The racing yacht America was pressed into service and served both sides of US Civil War. Were there any other racing and other unusual vessels that were converted to warships?

02:14:19 - Has there ever been a 1 v 1 action between ships that resulted in a boarding action and both sides suffered extreme to near total casualties ? Ie neither side wanted to give in or surrender.

02:17:07 - How did a nations ships get insurance?

02:18:06 - Channel Admin / Trip to Canada

[k]

Drach, you brought up some great points about spare parts, machine shops, and repair capabilities on larger ships. I served exclusively on Nimitz class carriers. The machinist would make a lot of components for the machinery on-board. As it was explained to me it took up less room to carry different types of metal and then make the parts rather than trying to carry every possible consumable part. Occasionally they even welded up titanium and steel tubing for our aircraft. You also mentioned how they would make parts for the other smaller ships, which is also accurate. As for hatches and such, they could, if needed, build one, but it's seldom an entire door that needs to be replaced. It's usually the dogs, the hinges, and seals on those that need replacing; and there were a few spare watertight doors onboard as well.

[keithstudly]

I often was given to wondering how the RN could have ever been as powerful as they were without the help of the legendary Popeye (the sailin' man) and his powers gained through spinach. I now have a new respect for British sailors after seeing the way Drachinifel handled that 16 in shell! WOW! Are you all like that? Without spinach? Color me amazed.

[michaelimbesi]

Drach, brilliant job discussing the reason for split superstructures on tankers. The reason that it died out has less to do with modern technology than with safety. They stopped putting the helm and deck department’s quarters forward because of a number of accidents in the postwar era where vapors in the tanks underneath the deckhouse exploded, causing massive casualties to the people inside. It also meant that getting from the forward deckhouse to the aft to reach the lifeboats required crossing the open deck, which could be an issue if the section between the two was on fire or the ship had broken in half. The added expense of having to build the aft deckhouse much higher to accommodate the extra personnel and to obtain the same field of view was the price of improved crew safety.

[TheDiablotak]

That picture of the KGVs quad turret being assembled blows me away, really gives a sense of scale and complexity of Battleships. Also it’s incredibly that they had work shops large enough to accommodate that kind of construction

[pedenharley]

Related to Drach’s answers regarding Constellation and the Ship of Theseus, I think Howard Chapelle’s answer in his 1949 book “The American Sailing Navy” remains helpful:
“A claim has been made that Constellation now in existence contains material taken from the original and therefore retains her identity. The reply to this claim is that the ship lost her identity by the process of having her model, dimensions, appearance, and rate entirely altered in her rebuilding in 1853-1854. She was constructed as what was then accepted to be a modern and efficient man-of-war. Therefore, accepting this completely altered ship as the original is as unreal as it would be to accept a cap-and-ball revolver as one of Washington’s dueling pistols on the grounds that the gun contained a couple of screws salvaged from the original flintlock.
The rebuilding of the Constellation in 1853-1854 represents a different situation from that of the numerous rebuildings of such naval monuments as the Constitution and the British Victory. In the case of the corvette, she was rebuilt into what was then a modern ship of war without any attempt to preserve the original, and the only reason her register was maintained, by means of an administrative fiction, was to enable the work to be done without the need of applying to Congress for the authority and funds to build an entirely new ship. Yet a new ship was produced, as we have seen by the plans. The Constitution and Victory, however, in their numerous rebuildings have maintained their form, rate, and dimensions, though it is true that their appearance was slightly altered from time to time…. The sentimental question of whether or not they have portions of the original ship in them is of small moment; the important thing is that, in rebuilding and reconstruction, they have retained their form, rate, and dimensions and thus their identity. Without attempting to discuss the advisability of retaining the corvette as a national monument, it can be said that the ship neither is the original frigate nor looks like her.”
I appreciate Chapelle’s distinction.

[bjarkih]

"What are your thoughts on the Ship of Theseus and and what type of refit or rebuild would constitute a new ship?" Reminds me of an axe in Discworld's 'The fifth elephant'

[ReturnoftheNative-wk]

Thank you to all who combine to bring the peerless Drach to us;
& thank you Drach, your peerless self.

[tombogan]

16:30 Just because a certain group can understand something doesn't mean they can do it. I was machining parts for medical devices. My job was out sourced to the companies showcase plant in Mexico. It was soon sent back because the Mexican workers just could not meet our tolerances.

[jonsouth]

Who thinks experements with Drach should be it's own show as that suction demonstration was ace.

[ruhnon]

TBH, I kinda like the split Patreon Drydock, it allows YT's bookmark system to work throught the entire video, and makes it slightly more digestible for watching/listening.

[nathanokun]

Concerning colored "smoke" shells, these actually existed in WWII as improved dye-bag-equipped AP shells used by the French and. later. British navies as so-called "K" APC/CPBC/SAPC projectiles. The introduction of colored dye bags int9o the windscreens of US and Japanese AP shells after WWI was done after the rather poor results of various British battles where it had been difficult for British warships to sort out which splashes were fired by a given ship for aiming correction. The Japanese had the Type 91 AP shells that had the windscreen snap off the nose on water impact, while the US used pop-out plugs in the windscreens to allow the o0cean water to ram through the windscreen on a near-miss. In neither of these types of dye-bag designs did the dye work if the shell got a direct hit on the target, which is somewhat counter-productive.

For the DUNKERQUE and RICHELIEU Class ships in the 1930s the French decided that the dye bag should give an indication no matter where the shell landed. To this end they developed a rather complex design whereby a nose fuze and booster charge from an HE shell was attached to the tip of the windscreen and a rather large dye-bag held in the windscreen jut under this nose fuze. This was the "K" shell adaptor (not sure what K stands for). On water or target impact, the nose fuze/booster would explode and make a bright colored flash and puff of smoke, on top of coloring the water in anear-miss. Very logical. After the fall of French in 1940, RICHELIEU escaped and the British examined its APC ammunition. The British Navy decided to adopt this "K" shell color system, explosive windscreen and all, and also named their modified mid-to-late-WWII anti-armor shells with it "K" shells, like the French. The British design was very similar to the French design.

So the K shells were indeed a form of WWII smoke shell...

[StarlightSocialist]

Command any ship, from any era? Easy choice: HMS Beagle in 1831. Her crew included a young gentleman serving as a naturalist in a supernumerary position and he would go on to publish some _intersting_ _ideas_ as a result of the voyage.

[scott]

I was traveling this past weekend and missed the release of the episode. Unfortunately, my travels also brought me in contact with COVID, and now I’m stuck in isolation. I really appreciate having this and previous episodes to help me pass my time while symptoms allow me to watch/listen. Thank you!

[moseszero]

I think a lot of the 'suction' problem is actually a lack of buoyancy. Hood sank quickly because it flooded quickly but there was still a lot of air in the ship that was being released as it went. Anyone in the water where that air was released would be 'floating' in a mass with much less density than normal water. The mythbusters test completely removed this effect through their methodology.

[dmphoenix]

01:53:07 An excellent demonstration; truly top rate and very intuitive to follow. Many thanks! Further, it was a great pleasure seeing you in person on your recent trip. Perhaps you will return soon.

Indeed, I hope you enjoyed your visit to America, sampling our wise and ancient culture of Truck nuts, Guns, Cadillacs, Elvis, Guns, Barbecue, NASCAR, Guns, Real-Football, Velveeta and correct meal portion sizes.

[robinstevenson]

You asked for suggestions re. weather to pack for. The HMCS Haida appears to be located in Hamilton, ONT, near Toronto. This is a lovely time of year to be there if skies are clear. Expect spring-like weather, which can include rainy days. It can get brisk and windy there, but it's unlikely to snow. Much like the UK.

[hisdadjames]

Thanks for going the extra nautical mile to demonstrate the downward current created by a sinking vessel. Superb. 👏👏👏

[jimmahon]

I could offer an example of the potential usefulness of a machine shop on a USN vessel during WW2. In his excellent account of serving aboard the John C. Butler class DE 343, U.S.S. Abercrombie, Edward P. Stafford describes a jamming issue with the ships 5 inch 38 cal main guns - BOTH of them! The clearances for the breech blocks and operating shafts that worked them were a hair too tight - the guns would function normally for the first dozen rounds or so, then as they heated up, jam with a round unfired in the breech, soaking heat up from the hot breech and barrel - NOT a good situation. The very rapid shakedown period had not allowed replacement of the entire gun assemblies or breech blocks. New operating shafts were assumed to be a solution, and relatively easy to procure from a destroyer tender in forward bases, so the ship proceeded to Pearl Harbor, where it was found that new shafts failed to remedy the issue - apparently the operating bores in the breech blocks were a tad undersized. The marks left on operating shafts after a jam (and the held-breath forcible hammered release of the blocks to free the slowly cooking round...) indicated to the gunnery officer and chief gunner's mate that a tiny amount lathed off the outside diameter of the shafts would likely solve the problem. Aboard the tender, the ordinance personnel refused to do the work, citing BuOrd prohibitions of unauthorized work on naval gun systems. The Abercrombie gunnery department, faced with going to war with a defective main battery, had differing opinions, and arranged to have their own chief gunner's mate do the machine work without any record of it being kept aboard the tender. They took .007" off one shaft, test fired one gun, and - no jams. After repeating the operation of the second shaft, Abercrombie's main battery functioned flawlessly for the rest of her deployment. A good thing because she was escorting Taffy 2 off Leyte during her first action, and though she was formed up between Kurita's force and her CVE's, she luckily didn't have to make a charge like her division mate Samuel B. Roberts, who died just over the horizon that morning. Her guns saw lots of AA action there, off Lingayen during the invasion of Luzon, and most of all, during extended radar picket duty off Okinawa. Good thing the crew had access to a lathe!

[mbryson]

Uncle Drach, you are an absolute machine! Thank you so much for sharing.

ps- You absolutely *slay* MythBusters. You showed us what is, not what you'd already decided to show us to prove one side over the other.

[jonathan_]

As a tie in to the machine shop question, I'd point out for anybody who might have missed it the Ryan's Battleship New Jersey video on her overhead rails included a bit on the hatches and chain hoists you could use to lift machinery up to broadway, and then from their up again to the machine shop deck, and onto the shop's overhead rails.
Interesting that at least on the Iowas you had some assistance in maneuvering broken things though the ship to the machine shops and back.