What is osu!lazer missing right now?

As osu!lazer is progressing and adding new features at an increasing rate, it still feels like there's some core elements missing. Here's my list of things that will need to be changed or implemented for me to consider switching fully to lazer.

#osu! #willyosu

[jeffballmap]

Another skinning issue that i felt needed mentioning is that any change you make to the environment of one skin(placement of score, pp, hp bar etc) only stays in that skin. And there's no way to copy those changes onto a different skins. This is why i have only played lazer with one of my skins, even though there are maps where I reckon I'd enjoy other skins

[arti_creep]

difficulty adjust is already unranked (it says unranked in the bottom right corner, but unfortunately the facecam's covering it)

[AscensionismOnOsu]

9:11 i've had the exact same issue, and for some reason to me it has felt more like if i was to hold down a key and just wave my cursor over the next one on accident, it would count as a miss even though i didn't send out a new input. (That's just what it *feels* like to me)

[kokomittens]

13:35 - just to clarify, you *can* change elements by dragging images with the correct names into the client. i went and tested to be sure - you have to delete the sprite it creates, then switch to another skin and back. the ctrl+alt+shift+s skin reload hotkey from stable doesn't seem to exist here. it's pretty clunky at the moment.

i haven't seen many skinners talking about lazer, in part because i don't hang around in skinning discords or anything like that, but i'm one of those players who spends most of their time in the game making original skins; everything related to skinning is 100% the biggest question mark over lazer for me right now. it's understandably hard to comment on what could be better because, as was mentioned in the video, things are subject to change quite soon - i'm also just not really sure what the planned end goal is for it, since most of stable's skinnable UI elements like pause/fail and results aren't (yet?) here.

a lot of the current stable skinning jank is going to be replaced with the ability to place sprites wherever, and no longer having weird hacks with selection-mode and the like causing aspect ratio dependent skins is a good thing overall. my biggest hope for lazer for the longest time had honestly just been that the missing few pieces in stable skinning like custom selection-tab or menu-button-background tint colors would be made available, assuming we'd get legacy UI. skinners will know that there ways around this but i've always preferred to make skins that support all aspect ratios, so having these last few things available would be such a game changer. the recent addition of skinnable songselect-top and songselect-bottom to stable was already pretty huge.

as far as ease of use goes, i really do think we need something closer to the skin folders in stable. i'm not convinced something like the editor's external edit button will be the way to go here. the way any stable player can go into the skins folder and just mix elements freely with very little technical knowledge is a huge positive. most players i know have their own mixed rafis/yugen variant of some kind, and for some its a first step into making their own original skins too. currently i export multiple elements at a time from photoshop to the skin folder and just hit a hotkey to see them all in-game, and this is like the single biggest thing making stable skins so quick to iterate on.

like another comment mentioned, changes persisting only for that skin is a bit frustrating right now. from a player pov being able to resize the UR bar from the options menu is so much more convenient than having to do it for each and every skin i use or import, even if we can copy-paste elements around. i don't really know how this can be addressed because it also extends to things like the progress bar's style. even if i could resize my UR bar globally, I tend to flip it vertically and thin the lines out to look more like stable's. i wish we could toggle the edges fading out too.

importing skins is also a bit messy currently, because lazer reads the skin's name and author from skin.ini directly, and a lot of mixers just don't tweak that. my lazer install right now has like 10 different skins named "Prawilosc vJP without followpoints" because people use the folder name to tell. i guess it's kind of not a lazer issue though because i do recall being new to the game back when stable had a skin selector with autoplay preview that actually showed the names.

[daniex]

2:38 The problem with merging approach different and grow/deflate is compatibility with other mods, in this case traceable. You can mix traceable with approach different (really cool combination), but with grow or deflate it doesn't really make sense. The same for other mod combinations.
4:03 They tried to do so. When button becomes active it flashes.
8:19 Mirror doesn't flip stacks direction which can slightly change map sr, so it needs realtime calculation just like rate change.
9:33 Game mechanics aren't up to debate, there was a time for it before pp release. After pp release mechanics can't be changed.
11:00 Score based statistics always use old scoring method even on lazer.
12:17 The idea is people will eventually use lazer mode 99% of time. When you're not logged in on website it already uses lazer mode by default.

[evill]

I pretty much agree with most points in this video, the only thing that I disagree with is your take on notelock. Lazer notelock to me makes the game play like it always should've, and in the example situation on Gaucho you kind of just played wrong if you tapped an extra time when you weren't supposed to. I've probably spent around half of my playtime on lazer since the pp release, but the biggest issue to me is that the leaderboards don't feel real at all and it still feels like you're not playing the same game as everyone else.

[havoc]

I can actually see that notelock concern actually being super legitimate. While more lenient notelock does generally feel better for most patterns, there are some more specific ones that I can see being an issue and feeling a little strange to hit for some players depending on how they personally like to hit said patterns.

[FubuOSU]

I switched to lazer a couple of weeks back and I do agree with you, but I’d add some more things:

1. Multi lobby is so different on lazer than stable, and not in a good way. Most of the times I did play with friends their profile was “Unknown” or “Undefined”, they also did not show up as online, while their appearance was set to online

2. Scoreboard Customisation is something I really want. I want to see what score and combo the person above me got while I play the map, instead of it disappearing and only showing profile pictures, and also changing the colors and opacity of the scoreboard would be great

Thats it thank you for reading

[cman]

Standard player comments:
2:10 - Yeah we just bring back the classic double click for DT/NC and just implement that same logic to other mods that would see fit
3:41 - Same logic as above but triple click sounds simple enough
5:43 - Agreed the ranked mapset goes through all QC's to get that moniker changing individual pieces aside from the ranked mods shouldn't count
6:57 - This is one that keeps me from Lazer I hate how my scores in the same game reflect differently across 2 different "rulesets" like why am i punished for being an older player
7:52 - Yep
8:18 - Yeah Mirror is just HR without the CS size change I agree
8:44 - Nah it's not just you I've had that happen before everything feels too... "soft" regarding mistakes
10:58 - The minute they can copy A and S ranks to mimic standard we'll be in good hands but that'll take ages if it ever comes to fruition
13:30 - This I'll give them time for it's way better than anything we've had before
14:14 - Maybe inverting the DT mod color more the faster they go? Regular yellow/black > black/yellow?

Good vid

[Taxuma_]

i switched to lazer recently and i do highly recommend it after a bit of getting used to and adjusting offset it truly feels like the superior client and is definitely the future of osu! it's only a matter of time before the majority switch probably. my only issue personally is that the song select feels cluttered but it's not really much of a problem
i would also personally, as a instafade circle player, would like instafade as an option you can turn on that can apply to any skin built into the game

[supernenechi]

I hope that people eventually just make the switch rather than keep making excuses for not switching already. Ask yourself this: if Lazer was the client you were on right now, and someone asked if you wanted to switch to the current stable client, would you do it?

I have been playing this game for about 7 or 8 years at this point. When I see the current stable client, it looks to me like the 2007 client does to you, a current stable player. To me, it's crazy to think that most people still play on that old thing. You might be a mega specific player, which by all means wait until Lazer has what you need, but if someone just plays to farm pp or especially to have fun: switch to Lazer immediately. It's far better lol

[imwithmilk]

Literally the ONLY thing i want from osu as a whole rn is a practice mode, i wanna be able to: change mods including difficulty mod, RX, AP, Auto literally everything, change DT rate, skip or go back to a different part of the song, set checkpoints if i fail i go back there instead of the start, quickly retry and set my FL circle size
All MID-MAP at the cost of losing my score and i would switch over on the spot and i would not look back

[Nearigami]

Speaking as a catch main, difficulty adjust should not be rankable on the basis that it would completely destroy catch as a gamemode forever. There are certain maps where when playing converts, buzz sliders give an extreme amount of pp due to being spaced in such a way where you don’t need to move your plate at all. Thankfully there’s only 2 maps right now where that’s a legitimate problem but being able to engineer your own perfectly spaced buzz slider would utterly destroy catch.

As someone who recently switched to lazer fully, it’s in a pretty good state right now. I don’t think it’s entirely there yet but I’m at the point where the pros of playing on lazer versus stable outweigh the cons for me.

[-cell]

I totally agree that the mod multipliers are messed up, especially the ordering of DT versus HDHR, but I want to add my reasoning for why I think your proposed solution of halving the bonus of HD isn't ideal. The problem is that the stable mod multipliers were designed with scorev1 in mind, where acc barely matters at all. Now that we have higher acc scaling in lazer score, differences in mod multiplier can be outweighed by small acc differences much more easily than they should, as you observed in the case of mrekk's #1 on united. That's why we need to increase mod multipliers overall not decrease them. This same problem was already addressed in scorev2, where HR was increased to 1.10x and DT to 1.20x.

[synchromic]

2:12 - I agree that some of these could be combined into single mods, but I wouldn't consider lazer having lots of mods an issue. That kind of suggests that we should avoid adding more of these mods, but I believe that the fun mods do add a lot of variety and interesting gameplay.
4:44 - Absolutely agree. If difficulty adjust is ranked, it can sometimes be like you're playing an entirely different map using the same leaderboards. There are a lot of super high star maps where the leaderboards are filled with people using DA to change it to CS 0, HP 0, OD 0, and it feels really cheesy.
5:56 - Definitely, and I'm surprised they haven't changed anything yet. Here's my proposal for some of the mod multipliers: HD 1.04x, HR same (1.06x), DT 1.15x (with each +0.1 rate going up by 0.03x), FL 1.15x, CL 0.97x. The DT rate change is the most important one for me--currently, HR gives the same multiplier 1.3x DT, while the latter tends to be much harder. Also a huge problem (especially noticeable during daily challenge) is that accuracy is weighted really high in scoring - you tend to need around 99.7 acc at 1.4x to get the same score as a 1.3x SS, while the former score is generally more difficult. Increasing the gaps between multipliers would make it a lot more fair in this regard. Only lowering the hidden multiplier like you propose wouldn't help much because the HDHR and HDDT scores both have hidden anyways. I think HD should still be 1.04x because there are enough maps where HD genuinely makes things harder, like AR8 tourney maps, and those shouldn't be discounted.
12:40 - hey that's me :o
But I think before they can consider adding #1 ranks from lazer, they need to fix the mod multipliers first. That single first place rank on my profile is like #150 on lazer leaderboards because it's beaten by all the HDHR scores. There are a lot of #1s that would be lost in a similar way, and people would not be happy. Maybe you could do something like have two sections, one for stable #1s, one for lazer #1s, but that sounds like it could cause lots of problems by itself.
14:14 - yes please

[ItsXenon-gkhv]

9:03 THIS, THIS RIGHT HERE as someone who has played lazer alot I have ran into this issue so many times and couldn't Tell if it was a me problem or not

[crazybear]

I strongly agree with pretty much everything you said but ultimately 12:12 is the main reason why I am not switching yet. It's like lazer exists and it is osu but it's not THE osu.

[callmebomb]

For me it’s a lot of the little things that aren’t in lazer that turn me off it. Not being able to sort by favourites, various annoyances when it comes to skins, most of the mods not being ranked among other random issues that I don’t really have when it comes to stable that keep me from switching over. Although I do think lazer is a great client overall, and most of my problems with it are either easy to fix or a product of me just being picky

[lescal]

i feel like lazer adoption might've been larger right now if it was catering towards tryhards first, and leaving casuals on second plan. catering to tryhard score farmers, top players, tourney players and mappers from the start. for fun eyecandy casual features way later on. because the casuals will naturally just follow the "elite" wherever they move to

[lescal]

I'm sad this video doesn't mention the osu! development roadmap, I'd love to see someone address/criticize how they've been handling which features are prioritized over others, and also the philosophy behind development more broadly.

Like, I have the feeling they should have a clearer goal in mind: making osu!stable feel exactly like a worse & less complete version of lazer. It still just feels too much like a different game to me. For instance, why experiment with unproven major changes to gameplay and leaderboards before everyone has already bought into the new platform? Perhaps because they aren't *that* confident about how receptive the playerbase will be towards these bigger changes, and they want to ease us into a somewhat different game with a somewhat different vision? I'm not a big fan of that.