She Built A Light-Powered Engine | Danielle Fong, Lightcell

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Episode 6: When heated, sodium emits energy via visible light at 2.1eV (or 589 nm wavelength). So, if you make an engine that heats up sodium, you can tune a solar cell to exactly that frequency and capture light efficiently — giving you the portability of a battery with the energy density of hydrocarbons.

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(00:00) - Intro
(00:32) - Danielle’s Background
(04:40) - Early Interest in Energy and Fusion Research
(08:14) - Leaving Academia to Become an Entrepreneur
(11:40) - Starting LightSail and Innovating in Compressed Air Energy Storage
(15:35) - Reflecting on LightSail and Compressed Air Energy Storage
(19:48) - Limitations of Batteries, Engines, and Fuel Cells
(22:30) - The Vision for Portable, Energy-Dense Power Generation
(27:16) - Rethinking Combustion and Light Generation for Compact Power
(31:56) - How the New Power Generation Process Works
(37:58) - Managing High Temperatures and System Components
(42:26) - Recirculating Heat for Higher Efficiency
(48:38) - Theoretical Limits and Practical Challenges
(52:50) - Engineering Solutions to Minimize Losses
(58:32) - The Experimental Approach to Rapid Learning
(01:02:54) - Balancing Exploratory Work with Systematic Testing
(01:07:40) - Developing the Craftsmanship of Research
(01:11:15) - Managing Company Priorities while Preserving Creativity
(01:15:18) - Advice for Learning and Advancing Technology
(01:18:36) - Building Real Projects and Sharing Knowledge
(01:22:10) - Conclusion

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[ArtworkAnon]

Frig awesome. This is Very inspiring. I’ve been following Danielle on Twitter for a long time but didn’t understand what was going on till now. ❤

[JairusBrandon-ib]

Hey, I'd expected an animation of how a light engine works. You know like the animation of how an internal combustion works. Those animations spark minds minds. As warehouse of animations. A picture is worth a thousand words.

[gao]

just a reminder, her company went bankrupt in 2019 without ever producing anything more than a gas tank

[johnjakson]

There are 2 UK projects regarding gas compression energy storage, the more recent liquifies air and stores that along with the rejected heat in sand buit from standards parts used in the gas industry. Their round trip conversion is about 60% which IMO is outstanding for days/weeks worth of storage, these are being built with wind turbines in Scotland. The earlier project was Isentropic which was more controversial using argon gas in differential hot and cold heat stores of rubble, the tech eventually ended up with Nottingham University under further development, they also get 60% or more round trip efficiency.

Also with Molten Salt nuclear Reactors, the conversion of fission energy into constant heat production which is then stored in hot salt tanks for later conversion to electrical power. By overprovisioning the number of generators up to 3 times which allows the power output to be base load and or mixing highly variable output that eliminates the need for storage when combined with intermittent solar/wind. So a 2GWh thermal reactor might produce 1GWe normally but can vary from zero to 3GWe as long as the total daily is 24GWe hr. Pretty much every MSR in development could do this and it solves several other problems as well, the power production is decoupled from the NRC regulated reactor across a "moat" separation.

And the super critical CO2 engines seems to have reached a working state, with much higher temp inputs efficiency can go from 35%s to 50-60%s or so.

In addition with working salt temps of around 700c or more, nuclear heat can split water into hydrogen at conversion eff of 50% with heat alone, if it were electrical produced hydrogen, you would only get 1/3 of the hydrogen. That process is the Sulfur Iodine catalytic process. Also the oxygen could also be sold and used for burning nat gas where needed at 80% eff rather than the usual 60% max eff in conventional CCNG plants, but thats another story.

[luke.perkin.inventor]

This is amazing stuff. Danielle's energy and enthusiasm is amazing too! Even more so on 2x speed!

[earlrobinson]

I Love interviews/talks that are understandable for the general public while raising the bar on scientific literacy for anybody willing to do some homework on the bits of science that make cameos in the discussion.

[joshcoray]

The Vehicle Research Institute at Western Washington University did this quite a while ago in one of their Viking cars (it was a green one, but I can't remember much beyond that). Not as complete as this - the technology was very underdeveloped. I always though it was technology that needed to be updated. So quite a few years ago a friend and I went through the potential of this using mantles that create light, like in a gas lamp, and applying this but never went beyond the technical hurdles.

This is a very advanced version and really hits it on the head. Nothing seems out of shape and I applaud the work done. Damn good job. This really could significantly change the way we power things.

[AdvantestInc]

In light of the challenges in the energy sector, how do you envision the role of young innovators and the transfer of knowledge to them?

[bobbyshaftoe]

Danielle is a HUGE advocate for Make Spaces. At least in his words talking about craftsmen and taking ideas and making parts.. and hiring old people!.

[alans]

Hype, lets see that prototype. Nothing is new here,

[Arexodius]

Here's a thought: Why not make a generic light cell to plug right into existing exhaust systems of ICE-equipped vehicles? Since most of the heat produced by combustion is simply wasted out the tail pipe, shouldn't you be able to scavenge some of that heat to convert it into electricity using a light cell? If the typical EGT is too low to liquefy sodium chloride directly, are there other potential sodium compounds that could liquefy at lower temperatures? Or are there other ways to make the sodium glow besides liquefying it that would require lower temperatures?
Or maybe you could just _accumulate_ the heat from the exhaust gas using highly efficient heat-exchangers and concentrate it to a point where you could plug and play a light cell.
Could you also potentially use a light cell to perform the same function that a catalytic converter does, thus replacing the cat?

In my mind, most vehicles with ICE's should be able to fairly easily utilize light cell technology in several ways to increase the overall energy efficiency of the whole system. Because if you could scavenge exhaust heat to produce electricity, you should be able to hybridize a vehicle fairly simply – for example, directly at the crankshaft, between the engine and the transmission or directly at various driveshafts! If you could convert most existing non-hybrid vehicle platforms simply enough into a system with a high enough degree of efficiency, that could be a really cost effective way for many people and businesses to "go green" and also make great fuel savings. And if more and more vehicles can do more work with less fuel, it enables people and businesses to do more and be more productive. This should boost the economy long term, since transportation is essential for practically everything in an economy.
I have very high hopes for this tech!

[manofsan]

Can't this idea be used for nuclear-to-electric conversion too? There's an old concept called a "nuclear light bulb" which kind of does this.
I'm not sure what the conversion efficiency of a standard thermocouple is by comparison.

[johntripucka]

The highest rated solar cells are at about 24% a unit 1 M by 1.6 M will produce 440 Watts never mind entropy. It is true high pressure sodium works on changeable energy states usually Mercury is added to begin the process of ignition. The heat exchanger is not much different in theory than an air conditioning Refrigeration sealed system. That's a crude example. It is difficult to follow the theme because of excessive tangentizing.

[joesammy]

Is magnetic field containment methods possible?

[backacheache]

You could run it on food waste by gasifying it with heat, running the engine on that then using the hest from the engine to gasify more waste.

[youeladamas]

This is not the first solar cells in a box idea but transparent aluminum can build parts of this. the heat will still be needed to be used for full efficiency. Also to save the system from breakdown. I think this could be made small and have the interaction happen in pulses. The first idea also might be done with solid state now aswell with the new chip fans. The best way for a light engine chem based would be a bio light source. The lightbug engine

[MRSketch]

I liked this lady. She's really passionate about her work. Liked how she explained stuff.

[dang]

Awesome episode. Question: would lowering the pressure help?

[niksoley]

Can someone explain how to make sodium emit light by heat?
Sodium lamps uses heat to get into plasma state and then a electric charge makes it emit radiation.
So, What would be the process of direct conversion from thermal to light?

[travismoore]

Just think maybe that would work with a isotope generator maybe plutonium 238 or something to heat sodium or salt to make light that then runs the solar cells to make power. Or use waste heat from the catalytic converter or exhaust in cars for a hybrid electric system.