'Dharma' or 'Dhamma'? Language and Sectarianism

A comment I get from time to time is that the name of this channel should be "Doug's Dhamma". This opens up an interesting discussion about some of the earliest languages of Buddhism and how their use reflects upon modern-day issues of Buddhist sectarianism.

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[netineti]

Doesn't matter Dhamma or Dharma
Its your personal choice, you are the most knowledgeable person in field of Buddhism I've seen so far on the internet.

[xiaomaozen]

To quarrel with someone and/or cause hatred because of such a matter is - in the light of the Dharma (or Dhamma - just as you please) - totally absurd. Nothing could be further away from the heart of the Buddha's techings...

[alexakroma]

I can't recall ever feeling as confident in the high worth of a recurring donation as I do for my donations to Doug's channel!

[Athato_Brahmajijnasa]

You explain very nice. I learn a lot about Buddhism from your channel.
There was a great Purva Mimamsa scholar named Kumarila Bhatta who lived in the times of Shankaracharya. He was worried about the widespread of Buddhism in India.
So, he disguised himself as a Buddhist monk, joined the Sangha and learnt Buddhism from the Acharya, however he got discovered and thrown over from the cliff.
His story shows that people in older ages did a lot of stuffs to learn about each other's religions and later they had debates and discussions.
This culture of debates or shastrarths has been almost lost in the Indian subcontinent..

[rupetos]

This kind of sectarianism is the thing I’d never expected from the Buddhists but that’s what I’ve faced many times. I recognize authority of most of the Pali Canon but I found Mahayana texts in particularly more helpful to me spiritually. I just love how beautiful they are, so I often prefer to say that I belong to Mahayana tradition. And often it doesn’t end well. Many followers of Theravada are explicitly rude to you and your tradition and believe that Mahayana is a “degenerative form of Buddhism” that was corrupted by pagan traditions and etc. I’ve experienced this rudeness so many times that I’ve consciously started avoiding followers of Theravada tradition.

[sveticus]

I have typically seen this kind of sectarian exacting among new / young people. I feel like there is a desire to ascribe to something and “get it exactly right”. I expect that these same people will mellow as they age and get more experience.

[DipayanPyne]

I don't see any problem here, Doug ! The Meaning is the Same ! However, your Explanation that Dharma is a Word that doesn't confuse people is Spot On ! Plus, if I am not mistaken, the Original Word is Dharma, not Dhamma, as Sanskrit is Older than Pali. So, the Channel Name should be 'Doug's Dharma'. However, a Scholar should Stick to the Sacred Language of his Tradition. Theravada Scholars should Stick to Pali, Mahayana to Sanskrit and so on. We must Preserve the Languages ! Also, I would just like you to know that your Pronunciation is often wrong. One eg : you don't Aspirate the D of Dharma or Dhamma. I don't really mind, coz it's really the Content that Matters. However, since I consider myself to be a Perfectionist, of sorts, I just wanted to let you know 😂 Just saying, Doug ! No Hatred ! 😄 Anyway, Thanks for your Channel, Doug ! It's the Best YouTube Channel on Buddhism. Your Understanding is Very Accurate. I have always been concerned about Foreigners, particularly Americans and Europeans, distorting Buddha Dharma. Many are Modern Day 'Orientalists', which is a big problem. With you, however, I feel quite Safe. Thanks for all that you have done for us. Be Well ! Namaskaaram ! 🙏🏼😄

[ancom_kc]

Great video! I lean toward the Theravada tradition, but it seems like nit picking over Pali vs Sanskrit is to miss the overall point. It sounds like attachment to views, which isn’t condoned in any Buddhist doctrine that I’m aware of, Mahayana or Theravada. You discussed it very skillfully, Doug!

[jjCwkH]

I think Dharma to an English speaking person just seems more comfortable. I know that that's not why you should choose one word over the other, but it does make the idea more accessible, which is exactly what we want.

I also speak Swedish, and because of their language, I believe Dhamma may sound better to them and have the same effect.

Dharma and Dhamma are cognates. When neither of them live in our native language, it should not matter which one we use, especially if we are choosing secular buddhism.

[jjCwkH]

The fact you only have ONE dislike on this video shows what a lovely community you attract. Idk who that dislike is but let's send them some loving kindness 🤣

[CamelCompass]

The language is not important usually, unless I didn't know that "Dhar" and "Dham" in Pali can lead to 2 completely different words

[pauline_f]

I could've been one of those people if I'd been here years ago, but as I've grown I've started to learn to think twice before "correcting" people. What is the benefit of doing so, exactly? I'm assuming it was done out of ignorance, but was it? It might fit better to use a different word, but is that important? Is perfection worth that much?

I've learned to let go of that instinctive perfectionism over time. It's often brought me and others trouble. I'll first reflect on whether correcting the person is actually useful, if it actually is a mistake or if it's more likely that I am the one being wrong, then I'll check if anyone else has already said it (if so, then my input isn't needed).
Most of the time, I realize I would be overstepping, and back out of saying anything. (Most notably, I have stopped correcting people for their spelling and grammar unprompted. If they asked for it, sure. But most of the time, the purpose of comments etc. is to transmit a thought, not to be perfectly correct in the action. It is not a display of skill, but an attempt at correction, and treating it otherwise is annoying at best, mean at worse, because spelling is a skill and the person can't just instantly improve overnight. It is, effectively, not a choice, not in the moment anyway, so.)

(Oop, when on a rant. Guess I needed to get it out. Hopefully this wasn't too long to read)

[shantanushekharsjunerft]

I have seen this particularly strong tendency among Theravada monks to reject Sanskrit. I think they also tend to associate Sanskrit with language of the Vedas and have a strong attachment to their views. In my experience attachment to rigid views stunts a person’s growth. There is fascinating work done by Yogacarins such as Vasubandhu and Asanga. Just limiting oneself to one single school is counter productive. There are brilliant commentaries in several non-Theravada schools.

[qrcprcg]

Thank you for your video doug, I have a question for you. If buddha close to his death made all of his expriences and teachings into a book, what do you think he would not include, take out or stream line some teachings which we find in suttas today? Many of his words are all over from his life time, and surely his opinions changed at least a little bit and he Got exprienced in how to translate his expriences into understandable teachings. How would he react to todays buddhist texts (excluding information that might have been myhtologized and remembered falsely), what would he change. He was Said to be a great teacher, so one Wonders as to what he would write for us 😌

[firstname]

We must be careful about arguing about the “proper” spelling. For in doing so, we may lose the point and the practice.

[zack-vknm]

Doug why is it that you keep making videos of different topics that come up in my day to day life right after I encounter them? Could this be the law of attraction at work? Lol thanks for being a wonderful teacher

[nirwanaswamy]

Dhamma(our present awareness), Dharma (truth), both are different

[eoghainam]

I'd probably argue that if someone is doing a formal introduction to Buddhism in general they should probably use both, either when they introduce the term or in a glossary at the end or something like that. Otherwise I don't really care that much, tend to use Sanskrit myself cause when I was learning about Buddhism for the first time I was reading Zen and Vajrayana based books.

[kidkous]

One is not more real; but early Buddhism seems to prefer Dhamma. Later Dharma. I see you as drawing your secular Buddhism from early. So, I wouldn't mind, and might expect you to to use Dhamma, but you've outlined well, ways you may, and may not fit, AND good reason too, like Dharma being more seen, such as in our Dictionaries. I use Dharma mostly, because I'm a Zen Buddhist, but also it's easier for my speech rhythms. But, since I don't have tensions that the Path may've, and have many friends in other interpretations or Branches, I try to say Dhamma speaking to kin [i see all Buddhists as kin or try to], if they would. Or reading the Dhammapada for instance, or meditations outside Mahayana or speaking on them after.

I truly feel the Branches are more alike than different, and I try to respect it. Plus, while I came to feel strongly Zen eventually, before that I studied alone and Refuge in my heart alone, a good while. This leave some not Zen habits, like reading widely, Metta (though that gaps may be closing in recent years it seems to me) like having a lot of friends and interests in all branches.

What one says, or how it's pronounced, to me, not so important, but maybe, you were saying, using one as "more real" or as a club to kin that prefer the other, it a cruelty and misses some goals of the Way...

Bows, Jikai

[AbhishekDabhanim]

Well, as an Indian buddhist there's an issue here. We tend to use dhamma over dharma cause dharma has brahminical connotation which we reject. 89% of Indian buddhist belong to dalit castes and follow ambedkarite radical buddhism.