Ken Wilber — Does Quantum Physics Prove God?

This conversation sheds clarity on a very confused notion in the area of spirituality today—namely, the “tao of physics” and all its variations, as exemplified by films like "What the Bleep". So what relationship, if any, does God actually have with quantum physics?

Does quantum physics prove God? This question has to do directly with the relation of modern quantum physics and spirituality. In effect, does modern physics prove God? Does the Tao find proof in quantum realities?

Ken Wilber’s answer: “Categorically not. I don’t know more confusion in the last thirty years than has come from quantum physics….”

Ken goes on to outline the three major confusions that have dominated the popular (mis)understanding of the relationship of physics and mysticism.

#1: Your consciousness does not create electrons. Unlike Newtonian physics, which can predict the location of large objects moving at slow speeds, quantum physics only offers a probability wave in which a given particle, like an electron, should show up. But here’s the funny thing: it is only at the moment that one makes the measurement that the electron actually does “show up.” Certain writers and theorists have thus suggested that human intentionality actually creates reality on a quantum level. The most popular version of this idea can be found in the movie What the Bleep Do We Know?!, in which we “qwaff” reality into existence.

Ken suggests this is both bad physics and bad mysticism. As for the former, in his book, Quantum Questions, Ken compiled the original writings of the 13 most important founders of modern quantum and relativistic physics, to explore their understanding of the relationship of physics and mysticism. Without exception, each one of them believed that modern physics does NOT prove spiritual realities in any fashion. And yet each of them was a mystic, not because of physics, but in spite of it. By pushing to the outer limits of their discipline, a feat which requires true genius, they found themselves face to face with those realities that physics categorically could not explain.

#2: Quantum vacuum potentials are not unmanifest Spirit. The immediate problem with the notion that certain “unmanifest” or “vacuum” quantum realities give rise to the manifest world, and that the quantum vacuum is Spirit, is that it immediately presupposes a radically divided Spirit or Ultimate. There is Spirit “over here,” manifestation “over there,” and it’s only through these quantum vacuum potentials that Spirit actualizes manifestation—with Spirit set apart from manifestation.

“In terms of actual real physics or actual real mysticism, they were incorrect on both counts. And the marriage of bad physics and sloppy mysticism has been a nightmare….” As the great contemplative traditions agree, true nondual Spirit is the suchness, emptiness, or isness of all manifestation, and as such leaves everything exactly where it finds it. Nondual Spirit is no more set apart from manifestation than the wetness of the ocean is set apart from waves. Wetness is the suchness or isness of all waves. By identifying Spirit with quantum potential, you are actually qualifying the Unqualifiable, giving it characteristics—”and right there,” Ken says, “things start to go horribly wrong, and they never recover. These folks are trying to give characteristics to Emptiness. They therefore make it dualistic. And then things get worse from there….”

#3: Just because you understand quantum mechanics doesn’t mean you’re enlightened. Physics is an explicitly 3rd-person approach to reality, whereas meditative, contemplative, or mystical disciplines are explicitly 1st-person approaches to reality. Neither perspective is more real than the other, but each perspective does disclose different truths, and you cannot use the truth disclosed in one domain to “colonize” another. The study of physics, as a 3rd-person discipline, will not get you enlightenment; and meditation, as a 1st-person discipline, will not disclose the location of an asteroid (or an electron). The “content” of enlightenment is the realization of that which is timeless, formless, and eternally unchanging. The content of physics is the understanding of the movement of form within time, i.e. that which is constantly changing. And if you hook Buddha’s enlightenment to a theory of physics that gets disproved tomorrow, does that mean Buddha loses his enlightenment?

Ken goes on to suggest that what might be influencing quantum realities is not Suchness per se, but bio-energy or prana, which may be the source of the crackling, buzzing, electric creativity that so many theorists have tried to explain at the quantum level. Of course, it remains to be seen exactly what further research does and does not support.

[Dude_Slick]

Fundamental strings of energy vibrating at different frequencies to create all the various densities of matter. I found this same model, with a description of what caused the vibrations. Guess where. Genesis 1. Let there be light(energy). Then God spoke upon that energy which caused it to vibrate, as speech is vibration. After bringing light into the picture, he spoke all things into existence. I found it quite a compelling parallel. It also dawned on me that "uni" means one, and a spoken phrase can be considered a "verse". And God is supposed to have spoken the uni-verse into existence.

[fractaorganism]

regarding 1. in the publishers comments above, i agree that there has been a mistaken notion in new age circles, most particularly in deepak chopra, that consciousness determines existence, which is a misinterpretation of what is going on in the collapse of the wave function. however regarding 2. the quantum vacuum or zero-point energy is the fluctuations of virtual particles given by the uncertainty principle, and these fluctuations interact with the manifest or gross physical universe very briefly, acting as the ever-present witness of material configurations from moment to moment, recording the flow of changes into the fabric of space-time at the planck scale from which the fluctuations came in the first place. this makes the quantum vacuum fluctuations the source of the eye of spirit, the ever-present witness of everything that is happening. thus the manifest realm is not separate from the unmanifest realm in this process, but is part of an unbroken unity or undivided wholeness through continuous feedback or holomovement from the explicate-manifest to the implicate-unmanifest and back again, an unending suchness of the eternal now unfolding and enfolding from moment to moment. in fact we can think of the quantum vacuum fluctuations as something similar to prana, as well as the eye of spirit. they are the active recorders and informers of the manifest realm, but are themselves unmanifest. finally, regarding 3. obviously knowing the mechanics of the universe will not bring enlightened consciousness, but the mere fact that the universe is structured the way it is as a gross physical, subtle quantum, causal dark matter, and nondual dark energy dynamical system is the condition for the possibility of there being life forms in the first place, and consciousness, and ultimately becoming enlightened. so it's not that consciousness causes existence, it's that existence (the kosmos) is a dynamical system that is none other than consciousness itself.

[ajcristo]

Quantum physics proves Christianity to be true

[quantumofspace]

The physical quantum vacuum must be continuous and at the same time discrete. The physical vacuum must be from chaos, in which the fractals of quantum wave oscillations are scattered. The physical vacuum must be rolled up and at the same time unfolded. For this physical vacuum, it is necessary to build a physical model from a quantum of membranes assembled into a “sphere” like “rose” buds.

[zannez.zixt]

Quantum= Quanta = Particles = Materialism = Failure.

Quantum Mechanics comes out of Einstein dismissing the Aether = Magnetico-Dielectric Counter Space

Consciousness perturbs the Aether through Desire = Pressure Mediation=water going down hill

Dielectric=Inertia + acceleration = voided-terminates as magnetism = Mass = Force and Motion.

In terms of geometry it is the Torus Hyperboloid

Magnetism = Torus - donut shape, the hole in the donut is the Dielectric = Hyperboloid hour glass geometry.

[LoveAndPeaceOccurs]

Thank You, Ken, Corey ... an excellent discussion on quantum physics, I consider Ken to be especially qualified to explain this due to his educational background. Love & Peace to All

[QED_]

What (?) Isn't quantum theory significant to spirituality because of its non-locality aspect (?) Non-locality being a way of understanding the experience of non-duality (?)

[mattb]

This guy needs to speak to Nassim Harramein.

[normaodenthal]

Spirit can’t be known as an object. So it’s not knowing about, but unknowing. Heisenberg may have been here, and Schrödinger‘s cat may be alive and dead. Beyond the quantum field is the real you can only feel as eye of the I.

[wissewester]

The archangels are yellow green and blue better known as micheal uriel and gabriel.
We are made of light/spirit the first split of light is between the 2 brightest colours green and Magenta also called flora and fauna we are Polar opposites because they are opposite in the spectrum wich is why we inhale oxygen and exhale CO2 plants do the Opposite we move plants are stationair we are pink plants are green, everything is made of atoms attoms are Mostly energy bouncing negatives around so, we are Mostly vibrations defining our mass and being, out consiousnes our soul also consists of frequency all we experience is in essence Energy. Denying the Existence of God is very naive. Reality is energy and matter we are God and no we dont create energy and we dont create matter these things Just exist the reason the big bang can happen is because of this 9630369 a parallel through a super massive black hole Ying and Yang perfect balance between positive and negative creating a flow of life. Energy doesn't need to be created for An infinite universe.


Relligion is quantum physics whether you want to Believe it or not.

[shaunmcinnis]

Science Having the ability and means to identify quantum mechanics, gravity, light etc.. doesn’t explain a thing really. The language of mathematics applies to almost everything in the physical world, that shouldn’t be a big surprise anymore, but for some it seems to be. We haven’t figured out a thing till we can explain how it got here in the first place. We are no closer to that answer than we were any time in documented history. That’s what we know for sure!

[egenestarr]

I believe that there is classical physics, QM physics and a missing physics before we even come close to GOD

[viniciusbueno]

In a nutshell: this guy is a materialist

[Samsara_is_dukkha]

First persons are made of third person parts at once behaving according to Newtonian and quantum physics... what is Wilber doing fragmenting everything?

[MarkusBohunovsky]

Nice one. Thank you, Corey and Ken! I was always bothered by the way Quantum Physics has been mis-used in this way.

[monicaborzu]

Thank you, sir, for explaining more about the Quantum Physics. Much appreciated!!!

[BxBillster]

Boooring. Bullshit. I fell asleep to this. If I could fall asleep to it it isn't real. Because right there it ceases to exist. Therefore this is not quantumly true. It just ceased to exist. So I would have to force myself to listen to this again for it to be sort of true, which it won't, so it can't be true, therefore quantum physics does prove spirit energy exist...now I'm gonna go back and force myself to listen to it to see what I missed. SMH...

[yaqin]

self-absorbed much... oh yeah, buy my book b/c I have no ego like everyone else