The Pros and Cons of Games Workshop

[MalcadorTheSigilite]

Pros: They invented warhammer

Cons: Everything else.

[BigBoyBillSneed]

One other potential negative is the "fans". The average Games Workshop consumer is not a customer, but a cultist. You're never allowed to say anything negative about Games Workshop. Even the slightest critique causes these people to change the topic, attack you, accuse you of being a fake fan, and perform insane mental gymnastics to always frame anything Games Workshop (a massive, profit driven corporation) does as a good thing. Though I must concede that this isn't technically something Games Workshop has control over, it is still a source of annoyance for me, and other companies don't seem to have this problem with their systems.

[NeumaghAnon]

When I realized that GW thinks basic characters are worth slightly more USD than an ounce of pure silver it made me groan

[RazielLordOfSecrets]

I'd say losing creativity is also a big con, same pose being recycled. Minimal updates on new models etc.

[chitzkoi]

Theyre just a start point. Community editions and balance patches are where it's at. When I game with my friends, GW aren't present, and their rules are just scaffolding - if we deign to use them.

[Constanz]

Always a good day when Macca uploads :)

[maxmagnus]

I just hate the 3 year edition cycle, which combines with a "change for change's sake" mentality and a tendency to have terrible balance which favors new releases. I want to build an army I can play with for a long time. But 40k armies require a shit ton of models, the game changes so often and the gameplay isn't very fun. I have a ton of 40k and 30k models, but I just don't like those systems.

So I am sticking mainly with Dropfleet Commander. And I have been convinced to try out Legions Imperialis, which I will do once I have painted the 350 infantry models I need to have a playable army

[spnked]

I have a major bone to pick with GW and their lopsided attention when it comes to factions. Damn near every faction I've ever taken an interest in gets axed or ignored. Chorfs got axed before I could really invest in them, Tomb Kings got axed alongside Fantasy, KO are a pitifully small faction comprised most of hero models, and Dark Eldar have a third of their range missing.

Yes, you can always make the argument that they don't get support because they don't sell. However, a big part of those low sales numbers stem from a lack of new/updated models, a lack of marketing, or in the case of the Tomb Kings, abysmal rules that made the faction terminally unfun to play on the table. It's literally a death spiral situation - old players already have everything they want and new players simply don't invest, so sales drop alongside GWs investment.

Worth mentioning as well that the Fantasy IP itself was killed due to this exact thing. GW created a bunch of problems that they proceeded to never address, saw their sales crater, and opted to wipe the board clean.

[flenwarrior]

I would like to think this would quell the negativity against you, Macca. But you are dealing with the hyper fanbois who don't want to hear well reasoned arguments. Great Vid though. Covers my thoughts on why I can't recommend this hobby to people

[volcano]

- Changing the background within the game, not to improve the story, but to introduce the Woke Zeitgeist into the setting.

[turkeyleader]

I honestly used most of my high school paychecks to buy my collection while I had no expenses, thanks to my parents. I have no idea how I would have realistically afforded my ultramarine army if I was living on my own in high school. It would have taken me way longer to save up for everything because of how expensive this hobby is. I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who graduated high school less than a year ago and is now in the military.

[Raygun]

This seems to really depend on the corner of gamesworkshop you're interested in. Necromunda has had excellent support for instance (it feels more iterative). 40k on the other hand seems to have planned obselecence, they just introduced a load of rules for most factions that make their codexes or indexes less competitive (they should be interesting but if anything less competetive)

[pcu]

I enjoyed you bringing your issues and positives forward. People just blindly support the company... Until their army gets deleted.

GW is a bad company for a consumer.
They make bad rules and anyone who has played anything outside of the GW sphere will get that.

They have an 'addictive and FOMO' style marketing ploy which is predatory.

They very publicly treat staff like cattle.

They change game rules to suit their need to push a certain kit.

The sad thing is that even with all the negatives, they will continue to be a bad company because they continue to make money from the folks they prey on

[Omega]

My first contact with GW was a 3rd edition rulebook for 40k in my early teens. The universe sucked me in and was a part in my life since then. That being said, I only started to play in 5th edition 40k.
Sadly over the years the game (40k) lost the shine and glow for me ... too many games lost in the listwriting/deployment phase (I remember a few games with my dark eldar against a tau player of that playgroup - must have been 6th or maybe 7th. DE at that time relied heavy on dodge to survive, even with their paperplane transports. Guess what markerlights could just ignore - correct, dodge. And ofc that tau player loved to spam those ...).
Horus heresy did hold me a bit longer as I truely think the setting is epic, but after the playgroup broke apart even that stopped (30k wasn't/isn't a game I'd recommend to have pick-up games with). 2nd edition for a very short time sparked my interest again, but then I saw some battlereports and got the punkings because of the rules (unbalanced reactions etc.).

Nowadays I enjoy still the universe, though it's again years since I last read a warhammer book. Gamewise I switched over to other systems that feel a lot more balanced, engaging and strategic at the same time (Kings of War and Dropzone Commander currently).
Personally I'd love the see GW return to itself a few years back - releases only once per month (not being bombarded every week with new things), specialist games being not mainstay systems (looking at you, horus heresy), less book-bloat, longer edtion lifetimes, ...

Have I lost my faith in the god/corpse emperor? Not quite yet, but it's damn near :(

[theylivewesleep.]

Their kits have not got better over time

Dear Lord

They are cut so poorly for no good reason. So many schizophrenic sprues with diminishing content.

[malicant]

I think GW peaked at some point in the early 00s, in my opinion. Today's models are far, far too detailed to the point that there's too much going on. Furthermore, modern models are much larger and festooned with easily damaged or broken pieces that makes them hard to transport. They're more akin to display pieces than anything else. Back in the day, the blend between detail and the model's intended use as a gaming piece was just right.

As an example, take the old metal plague marines from 3rd edition. They look diseased, but they're not over the top. The modern plague marines are just cartoonish in their appearance.

[Kenneth-kb]

Slight correction at 24:00 the basic characters, like the chaplain, are 40-45 American Dollars.

[zep]

That Jeep/Chrysler reference killed me 😂

[ahrman]

Great video, cannot argue with any of your points - positive and negative.

[Gemis_Heresy]

I was talking to my gf last night about how some of the prices of kits don’t really make sense. The Aggressor kit is 60 dollars for 3 models and jump intercessors for 5 for 60with roughly the same piece count. And I had a thought about how the lose of the force org chart in 40K has kinda messed up the pricing.