How to know if you're a cage stage Calvinist

Join Jeff Medders, Jonathan Leeman, Dr. Steven Lawson and Barnabas Piper as they discuss the term "cage-stage Calvinist": what one is, how to know if you are one and how to avoid being one!

In his new book, Humble Calvinism, self-confessed recovering, cranky Calvinist, Jeff Medders reveals how a true understanding of "the five points" fuels a love of Christ and his people that builds others up, rather than tearing them down. He urges readers to be humble and gracious as well as zealous for the truth, to the praise and glory of Christ and his church.

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[russelaitkenhead]

“We would become Cage Staged if we lost Christ in our Calvinism.” Such a great line! This was such a great watch, thank you. As someone who was converted in and spent 20 years in the charismatic movement (Assemblies of God, South Africa) and only discovered the wonderful doctrines of Calvinism 2 years ago, I must admit I to fell into the Cage Stage. I was all about reading Jonathan Edward’s, JC Ryle, AW Tozer, John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon, RC Sproul, Steven Lawson, John MacArthur (upgraded my NIV to the MacArthur ESV Study Bible), etc. I was excited about what I had discovered that I just wanted everyone I knew to “get it”, and in so doing I humbly admit that I came across arrogant and ungracious at the best of times. Thankfully after a lot of prayer and focusing on ensuring Christ is at the Centre of all (not Calvinism in and of itself) things have gotten better 😇 Praise God for all the incredible resources we have available, sites like Ligonier Ministries, The Gospel Coalition etc. This was an encouraging watch. God bless

[linds]

We need to hear this discussion more often. As for the term cage stage referring to Calvinists, I've seen the flip side of this. Calvinists aren't the only ones who become too argumentative! It's beautiful to see you having this discussion - such humility and wisdom! This is true discipleship!

[ReformedTradesman]

I bought and read Humble Calvinism and it was such a good read. It helped me put the most important things in perspective. Love God with everything you have, and also your neighbor which matters the most when you're enlightened by beautiful truths from Gods Word. There are times to defend it, and there are times to let it be. (Even though it may be very hard to.)

[huntsman]

Better terminology is zealots or even cultists. I went through crap because of this. I have news for most of you, people were saved before John Calvin wrote a gospel!

[augustinian]

As a former Lutheran (now Anglican/Anglo-Catholic, though still pretty Lutheran theologically), this describes a lot of young confessional Lutherans studying theology as well (my younger self included). I’m pretty sure every tradition has its equivalent of cage stagers. (As someone relatively new to Anglicanism, I only recently encountered cage stage Calvinists for the first time. As Calvinism is a part of the heritage of Anglican theology, I’ve been looking to eventually study Calvin and classical Reformed theology to get a better understanding than the secondhand overview I learned as a Lutheran; came here as a palate cleanser to avoid judging Calvinism by the somewhat insecure behavior of the younger proponents I happened across.)

[kobeisreallyasian]

I’m so stuck. It’s affecting my life so negatively. I’m struggling to put truth and love together

[itspeepday]

TULIP's aroma must be that of Christ.🌷J Medders

[henryplays]

John 3:36 LSB “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

[Acek-okdp]

Christ did not become "depraved" on the cross. Utterly inappropriate phraseology.

[raymatthews]

We should share Calvinism? How about we share the Gospel of Christ, you know, the death, burial and resurrection He did for the sins of the world?

[chrismachin]

The Church I attend will not have “Calvinism” or “Reformed Theology “ taught in the Church. They say we have the “free will” to choose or reject Christ. Calvinism is seen as an evil ideology. All the Churches in my area teach the same doctrine, Arminianism. I will continue to be “fed “ the teaching of the leaders of the Church. Maybe my enthusiasm and belief in Reformed Calvinism can be crushed and I will become a normal Christian?

[pcbc]

“And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As He says also in Hosea: “I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved.” “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people, ’ There they shall be called sons of the living God.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:10-26‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.””
‭‭John‬ ‭6:64-65‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:3-10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[mysterypink]

You make it sound as if Calvinism is the gospel.

[Chase]

When you say Calvinism is the pearl of great price which is a parable about Jesus (who is the pearl of great price) then you are a cage-stage

[angramp]

That was my mom in the early 2, 000's. It was awful.

[UniteAgainstEvil]

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Ezekiel 33:11‭-‬12 KJV
sorry calvinists

[CharlestonJesus]

ahhh the cage stage! Some never grow out of the cage stage. It seems they are more interested and aggressive in converting the sheep to Calvinism than winning the lost to Christ. I have ran into quite a many. That sounds more like what cults do. All they want to argue about is Calvinism and the 5points. They view scripture through that limited lens. They don't want to talk about anything else in the bible. The great preachers such as Spurgeon and Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones preached the whole bible and Calvinism was not their focus Christ was. Actually, Calvinism was very little of their preaching because their is so much more in the bible to feed on. If all you do is get wrapped up in winning an argument that is your focus I would ask how is your relationship with Christ? If they are honest they would say not that great because they spend such a large amount of time arguing the 5 points that they have lost Christ. Christ should be above all things.

[truth]

Yes the Calvinist god is merciful by punishing by torture those he forced to commit the very sins he came up with! Good job Sproul, Calvin, MacArthur, Washer, Piper. No wonder millions flock to the merciful Calvin god!

The real God of Creation said this of His love for all man and the Created Universe.
Psalms 145:9 The Lord is good to ALL; he has compassion on ALL he has made.
Little different from the evil cruel god of calvinism isn't it?

The real Jesus said in John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2 : 3-6 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people.

Calvinist god followers say that their god blinds the eyes of the Non-elect so they cannot see or understand the gospel. Yet it is they who have been blinded by Satan. Satan has blinded the eyes of those who are perishing. Satan leads the whole World astray.
Nothing makes people hate God faster than Calvinism.
Nothing turns people into Atheists faster than Calvinism!
Nothing kills hope and love faster than Calvinism!
Yet they are wise in their own eyes and lost in their souls and hearts.They gather around themselves those who speak the same lie!
Wake up and turn to God who loves you . "Repent and be Baptized before your life is spent and there is no more hope for you!
This can be the day of your salvation.
In Love!

[JuanRodriguez-jnzx]

Porque enfadarse tanto por una doctrina tan fácilmente desmentida desde la lógica y desde la Biblia.

[graysontheovercomer]

Hyper/cage stage Calvinism verges on Gnosticism. As a calvinist, this utterly disgusts me.