How salt and sand could replace lithium batteries

The lithium-ion battery has powered us for decades. But for a renewable future, we need a new solution—and fast. So what are our options?

CORRECTION: In the video, at 05:40, we say lithium-ion batteries can only store energy for under four hours. This is incorrect. Four hours is the discharge duration that is currently economically viable.

Reporter: Beina Xu
Video Editor: Tomas Rosenberg
Supervising Editor: Joanna Gottschalk

We're destroying our environment at an alarming rate. But it doesn't need to be this way. Our new channel Planet A explores the shift towards an eco-friendly world — and challenges our ideas about what dealing with climate change means. We look at the big and the small: What we can do and how the system needs to change. Every Friday we'll take a truly global look at how to get us out of this mess.

#PlanetA #Lithium #Battery

Read more:

Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:49 The lithium-ion battery
02:33 Hydro
03:46 Sodium-ion
05:00 Thermal heat
07:11 The future

[DWPlanetA]

Did you know about all these different kinds of batteries? Which surprised you the most?

[adrianthoroughgood]

Terrible inaccuracy at 5:30 - 5:50. They said the molten salt storage can store energy for 6 hrs but lithium only for 4 hrs. But lithium can store energy for months with little loss if you wanted it to. 4 hours is the time frame that they make the most profit out of it typically. It's purely economics that sets that time frame, not physics.

[santhoshsep]

Just a suggestion, the music in the background is quite disturbing and few times can’t hear what’s being said, suggest to keep the music little low. But as always great content DW

[mattbosley]

"If you can't bring them on a plane" - but you can. People bring lithium ion batteries on planes thousands of times daily. Laptops, phones, smart watches. You're just limited in the size of the lithium battery you can take on a plane. And of course there are different types of lithium batteries. There's also lithium polymer and lithium iron phosphate.

[FelipeSantos-swkk]

1:38, short bursts of discharge. That's why you're in my heart guys. Love your videos.

[Thebreakdownshow]

At least the world is starting to invest money into the research and development of all kinds of tech to enable a greener future.

[ProjectPhysX]

For grid storage, you can use the worst battery chemistry, like Iron or Sodium batteries. Energy density can be awful, but it doesn't matter. Unlike in cars or phones, battery size and weight is not a constraint here. The only constraint for grid storage is cost per capacity.

[michaeldepodesta]

Unusually, this is a really poor video from DW PlanetA full of basic errors and mis-explanations.

Firstly there is no mention of storage time which is critical for understanding the problem. Storage over milliseconds to seconds to hours will probably be solved by whatever is the cheapest electrical battery technology: probably lithium because nothing else has the scale.

For longer storage there are many competitors as the video mentions. But the sand battery can NOT store sand at 500 °C for "months". A simple calculation shows the 100 tonnes of sand will lose 50% of its energy in 2 months. And that battery stores only 8 MWh(th) - enough for 2 homes for 1 winter. And it cannot be used for industry which requires lots more heat at higher temperatures.

Secondly Lithium batteries environmental impact is grossly overstated. And no mention is made that the most modern battery chemistry (LiFeP)which uses no cobalt or nickel i.e. no child labour. Or that the main use for cobalt is actual in petrol refining, not making batteries.

Thirdly, lithium batteries last an enormously long time - hundreds of thousands of kilometres in a car - or thousands of discharge cycles in a grid application. And they are almost 100% re-cyclable. And while older battery chemistries can catch fire, modern LiFeP batteries do not catch fire. And molten salt? Well it throws away 70% of its stored energy when it is used to make electricity.

I can't list all the errors - but unlike most @DW Planet A videos - this one is very poor.

Hopefully you will do better next week.

[elifceylancengiz]

In fact we have another battery type as an option: high temperature sodium-sulfur (NAS) batteries! It was commercialized 20 years ago by NGK Insulators as stationary battery system and has been used in several countries in the world. Sodium and sulfur is abundant in the world and in my opinion it is one of the best options for now and the future! No one talks about NAS unfortunately, but this system deserves to be globally known.

[kanekiken]

I think Sodium ion will win it.
We don't have enough lithium to use for grid energy storage as we would need them for cars, buses, etc

While sodium can't be used for cars because of its low energy density, so Sodium is perfect for stationary use.

It is also very abundant and cheaply available.

[klepow]

I've loved the concept of saltwater batteries, for years. The US manufacturer of them dropped the ball and went out of business, but not because the product was bad. Thanks for finally mentioning them. Is there any news of a new manufacturer for them stepping forward? I heard a rumor of a Chinese company doing so. They would not be good for cars, but with their low manufacturing cost, and their durability, they could be quite useful for home, business, and grid storage. A Li-ion home storage solution maybe the size of a breaker box, and a saltwater would be the size of a dishwasher, but if it's only a few hundred dollars, rather than $5k+, it's an attractive option for most places.

[saibalmitra]

Pumped hydro can also work on the seafloor. You put large containers there and energy is generated by letting the seawater flow in, while energy is stored by pumping the seawater out. The large pressure at the bottom of the oceans then allows for a larger energy density compared to conventional pumped hydro systems. E.g. the average depth of the Atlantic Ocean is 3.6 km, so the available pressure difference is 360 bar. And there is, of course, an enormous amount of area available for such systems, unlike conventional pumped hydro systems.

[simonbaigrie]

Been thinking for a while salt could be an interesting option for energy storage and be a commercial use for brine waste from desalination plants killing two birds with one stone.

[quimblyjones]

Note to editor:
If I'm struggling to hear the narrator over clicks and music then you might need to work on your balancing.

[Vitan]

As someone who sels PV power plants, I'm baffled at the current focus on Litium batteries for house storage. I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't care if their battery was 5x bigger if they could get them at a fraction of the cost. This goes double for grid storage. We should focus on low-cost scalable solutions. You know like PV itself...

[trinabaker]

My daughter's Gameboy battery still works perfectly since 2006. I can't believe it. We keep charging it to see how long it will last.

[johnr]

Salt? The byproduct of desalination. Wonderful. Helps solve two problems.

[SkepticalCaveman]

LFP batteries solves the problems of regular lithium batteries. They don't contain cobolt, very safe, are cheaper, have a very long life, can be charged full regulary without taking much damage at all. Their main disadvantage is that they are not as energy dense as normal lithium batteries, but they can be charged to 100% to compensate for that limitation.

LFP will most likely dominate for 10 years at least, since new technology will take time arrive to the market. Sodium might take over the in 15 years, who knows?

[zakihr]

I like the honesty of the noble prize winner " you work with nice people, they do the hard work and you comeback take as much credit as you can hahaha" this summerise the corporative nature of today universities and companies.

[patrickgartnercoelho]

I feel like the risk of lithium ion batteries burning is (as so often) greatly exaggerated. We often forget that petrol can just immediately blow up if incinerated but nobody thinks about it as they trust the technology they know. Likewise there is no higher risk for electric vehicles to just start burning as compared to normal cars.