TWiV Special: Bivalent boosters with Paul Offit

Paul Offit returns to TWiV to discuss why the bivalent booster dosing story should be a cautionary tale of how not to move forward in this pandemic.

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[lesfaby]

YouTube timestamps by Les
01:37 Omicron immune evasion motivated bivalent vaccine
03:07 tested antibody boost was not enough to make a difference
04:04 BA1 was replaced by BA4, BA5 so matching is a moving target.
WHU1, BA4, BA5 bivalent was produced and govt bought 171 million doses
even though not tested for efficacy
05:26 no attempt to just focus on oldest, high risk groups
05:39 Antibody responses to bivalent booster (bioRxiv)
eventually will be published in NEJM
06:10 Immunogenicity of bivalent vaccine (bioRxiv)
07:25 modest decrease in mild disease a month after boost
08:04 most of variants are BQ* and not BA4, 5
08:23 lesson: don't chase after variants
11:17 Now we can't do immune naive studies
11:58 Need stats on who is dying and their vaccine history, etc
13:22 Fallback may be annual shot even if we don't have data
not a reasonable approach
14:29 Concentrate on having a vaccine that stops serious disease
15:37 Bivalent shot was no worse but an unnecessary effort
15:42 Why does 3 shot original vaccine seems to work as well as bivalent
need to look at T-cell protection
.Website audio Timestamps by Jolene. Thanks!

[Mathblade]

It's unnecessary to worry about loosing public trust, there is very little public trust left to loose

[dan_hoar]

I am curious given the minimal improvement in protection against severe disease (not protection from infection, etc), that shouldn't the rare but existing negative side effects of the vaccine be more carefully considered when making FDA recommendations, especially in lower risk groups such as healthy young people?

[gerry]

Please comment on recent parliamentary debate in UK calling for withdrawal of MRNA vaccines.

[jeffdavis]

Thought that this was good info. I'm a 70 year old healthy active male that has had the three shots and recently just came down with a minor case of covid that seemed no more than a cold and has resolved with a couple days of rest and a few over the counter meds. Basically I tested negative after 5 days and only had a little lingering nasal congestion at that time otherwise felt fine. I don't plan to get any further boosters unless of course something changes drastically regarding variants severity and threat.
All that said and what has been pointed to here regarding booster fatigue and effectiveness, I think the one thing that isn't mentioned is the financial aspect for the industry. Pfizer reportedly made 26 billion the first quarter of 2022 on covid vaccine and therapeutics and is forecasting over 100 BILLION of the 2022 year for covid vaccines and therapeutics. Not to get too conspiratorial but it would seem pretty profitable to be chasing variants every quarter with a new booster. Especially under the EUA status and the recommendation of the FDA and CDC jumping on board! I for one am getting a bit concerned that this is becoming a bit of a pharmaceutical cash cow with no liability attached.
The FDA and CDC seem tied to congress as are the big pharma companies with lobbyists and campaign contributions. So I am wondering if maybe the EUA granted to these companies absolving these companies of liability tied to the vaccines /therapeutics should go away at this point and additional studies (and liability) should be necessary before approving yet another variant booster for the public. After all as you pointed out here the boosters that have come out to address the variants have been basically AFTER the variant has died off and really seem to be of little use to us. Plus I heard the BA4 and 5 bivalent booster was based on 8 mice producing antigens to the spike proteins of the variant, , , , I'm not jumping at wanting to put another vaccine into my healthy body with no liability attached to the company and not knowing its effectiveness in people.(which was pointed out in the video)
Additionally by people being infected with the lesser severe strains will that then help us progress to a more secure herd immunity? Enjoyed the Vlog.
Curious if you might do a show addressing this aspect.

[albinosquirlz]

What about the negative efficacy after a few months?

What about natural immunity?

Why is this still EUA....where's the "emergency" to qualify?

[davidwestwater]

I cannot think of a single logical reason why a person who has been exposed to covid would take a booster. Nor do I understand why natural immunity was so completely and totally ignored as a factor in this pandemic it goes against all logic and all science but then again I am not "the science"😂

[alan]

Too late, public trust is gone. For many, it will never come back.

[reyobaker]

@8:30 when he says the vaccines protect against serious disease, thats actually not true, many vaccinated people are sick with serious conditions, myocarditis percentages are up, and there's still a ton of data we dont know yet about these covid vaccines particularly long term effects, but top studies have shown natural immunity is far better when facing the virus again down the road.

[tomsteinberg]

Many thanks to all -- I liked Rich Condit for the clarifying questions. Either they agreed to set it up that way or they've been doing it so long they knew it would flow. RC's a master of questions or summary restatements to bridge the gap to a general, educated audience.

[baabaabathsheba]

I never considered the vaccine because my mother died of BSE and I worried that if I had a genetic disposition to the disease the vaccine could trigger it. My doctor of course thought I was bonkers and should go ahead and get it to 'protect the clients I support ' and she denied that I already had natural immunity having got the virus before the first lockdown. I decided to go with my gut instinct and have never regretted the decision. Especially, as we now know it was never tested for transmission. My colleagues seem to be getting ill all the time (all vaccinated) but I've been fine. My sister had blood clots following the second vaccine although she still thinks it was just a coincidence! I worry about outcomes in the long term and get annoyed that no one really talks about Vit D/losing weight etc. All probably far more beneficial in fending off all viruses.

[jsaverk]

Unreal! Not one mention of safety! Myocarditis, pericarditis, especially and younger male adults not one mention. And blood clotting.

[christopherrobinson]

In the UK the bivalent vaccines has two elements, one against the original variant and another against BA.1/BA.2. This was the type that was offered in the US but the FDA opted for the BA.5 version. The UK did not want to wait for the BA.5 version, because it was thought not to be available outside the US before the end of 2022 and they wanted to start the Autumn booster program at the beginning of September.

The BQ.1.1 has become dominant is the US, which is from the BA.5 lineage. The XBB is from the BA.2 lineage. So it will be interesting to see how both vaccines perform against the new variants, in the US and the UK.

[robyn]

Telling me the bivalant is no worse than the original vaccine, gives me no peace. My confidence in public health is gone.

[kristen]

Love Dr. Offit. As a scientist myself, I’m hoping he’ll trudge into the vaccine injury discussion. Many of us are having the same neurological symptoms, including those of us in the ongoing NIH clinical study, directed by Nath.

[stevegernetzky]

I love it every time Paul Offit is on twiv. What a great concise and to the point discussion. Thanks!

[aq]

The case Paul Offit has made seems hard to argue against. It would be interesting to hear from another member of the advisory committee to help understand the logic behind their approach.

[davidfookes]

Here's what I believe is a pertinent question. Do you believe pharmaceutical companies prioritize profit and share-price above the well-being of the general populace?

[barnaclewatcher]

Thank you all, especially Paul Offit for sticking to the science rather than succumbing to the politics.

[mitchellplatin]

Why are they ignoring natural immunity?