Is Ethics Just Emotion?

[CosmicSkeptic]

Clip taken from the Know Thyself podcast with André Duqum

This is not a point about utilitarianism. It is to point out that *any* proposed counterexample to an ethical theory, whether successful or not, demonstrates the emotive nature of ethics.

[aaronmueller]

Me on my way to clip out “Killing an innocent person just sort of feels wrong? Who cares?”

[redgoldcrown]

we came up with ethics in the first place because we felt that doing certain things was wrong, and decided to try to codify those responses into a coherent overall theory. that's why when we're presented with a counterexample that meshes with the theory but still feels wrong, we adjust the theory. ethics isn't a calculator, it's taxonomy.

[Ty]

Living in a world where at any second you may be killed for your organs isn't maximising pleasure. Everyone would be paranoid af.

[iame]

We don't change a calculator just because we don't like the answer. But if the formula you plug in consistently results in inaccurate answers, you change the formula. When Einstein saw issues with Newton's theory of gravity, he didn't just sit and accept that our natural intuition is wrong or overly emotional; he changed the theory.

Granted, scientific evidence is much more concrete than any evidence used to promote ethical theory. But that applies to the original theory just as much as to any changes made to it. One is not superior to the other if both were derived from the same methods. However a theory is created, you aren't flawed in attempting to change it if you do so via the same procedure.

[WhoThisMonkey]

*slams calculator against the desk.*

"DO AS YOU'RE TOLD!"

[coomtheslayer]

Fun fact: changing/challenging your theories and beliefs is critical to making them as correct as possible

[komrel]

The trolley problem has changed this man

[troywojick]

It's almost like we as humans have a conscience.

[TES-]

I think you can still judge this scenario in a calculator way. If you kill an innocent person to save five lives, that’s not the only issue. If you allow a society to kill people constantly to save others you’d have unlimited chaos, paranoia, and instability. That’s why the right to defend yourself against violence is so important, and why things like rights to property and privacy are important. if I steal food from you to feed ten people, then why do I think that’s wrong? Because society needs laws that are easily understood and stable, and we can’t constantly steal things from people even if it helps more people. That’s why utilitarianism is so difficult because there’s so many calculations to make.

[Raptor]

The two pillars of ethics are empathy and reciprocity. Empathy is the ability to care about another party regardless of what happens to you. When empathy fails, reciprocity (the golden rule) kicks in. When both fail, abuse or conflict are inevitable.

[micahdye]

The intelligence in this man is incredible. Love hearing him talk. Always gets me thinking deeply about concepts

[alexanderlyon]

Killing a life and saving a life are not equivalent.

[theqracken]

The trick is optimizing for pleasure over an infinite span of time. So while the specific example with the organs would maximize the results of that senerio, it actually DECREASES overall pleasure globally. Because living in a world where that is an option at any point and could happen to you, measurably reduces everyone's pleasure within that world.

[JezHeck]

Isn't "maximizing pleasure" based on feelings in the first place. This seems like a big contradiction.

[margaretrandy]

The objection actually works because it points out the failure of pure utilitarianism to incorporate individual rights, which most people would agree are crucial to a viable ethical belief system. Feelings have little to do with that one.

[dfhuscarl]

This is your brain.
This is your brain on ethics.

Ethics. Not even once.

[Proud_Troll]

The fact that the calculator violates everything that we know to be fundamentally important to the success of human civilizations, should be an indicator that you're using the wrong calculator.

[Tophe]

Ethics are a human construct. The universe is indifferent.

[jamesmcadory]

I’m so glad to hear someone else say all of this. This drove me crazy in my Philosophy class and people didn’t understand what I was getting at.