China's 7nm Semiconductor Breakthrough

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Corrections:
- The MinerVa BTC miner was SMIC N+1, not N+2. Didn't see the TechInsights update

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Like the CEO of ASML, Peter Wennink said when reacting to American pressure on China : “The rules of physics are the same in China as they are in the US or the Netherlands”.

Gemarica
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Man.. I remember find this channel back in 2020 when it had 15K subscribers. How far you’ve come along.

hai-duynguyen
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The drive for EUV was based on economics: with multiple patterning you can make the same chips but at a higher cost.

tommycents
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Korea is different from China. Korea gets the US's back up in winning against Japan semiconductor industry.
American has feud on Japan's consumer electronics overwhelmed its market, so it struck back Japan by assisting Korea.

alexlo
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Very few talked about SMIC hiring away some of the smartest engineers at TSMC, more than 250 of them in fact. So, with the people that know how, they have the breakthrough.

pwu
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Fabulous coverage, so respectably balanced. Appreciate your work.

ErikWalle
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This video made me re-watch the "can you do 7nm without euv?" video you posted an year ago. It speaks to your in-depthness regarding semiconductors, and i can't overstate how much i respect your hard work and dedication. thank you.
Edit: hey jon. Sorry for this stupid ass argument in the replies to this comment. I have no idea how it started.

keitatsutsumi
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Speaking of LAM, I would love to see a video on them (I work on LAM equipment). There history, achievements and so on. Great video as always, keep up the good work.

marcclarence
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It’s a mature SMIC N+2 node with performance at least on par with Snapdragon 888 (Samsung 5nm) and the original Kirin 9000 (TSMC 5 nm) with GPU function appears locked on AnTuTu. I would have guessed using DUV SAQD but there are rumors they benefited from some early EUV elements. China has close to 100 1980Dxi’s with a domesticated part supply. Another rumor is SMEE will deliver its own DUV machine by year end that is equivalent to the 2000Di. The yield on the Kirin 9000s is now thought to be at least 80% if not 90% — if you FIB enough of them you can get statistics on CD and overlay. You need to adjust your timeline for “China speed”.

mikeca
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I just noticed you referenced Jordan Schneider. Wasn't this the clown that's currently being trolled about how China's chip industry is totally dead a year or so ago? He also works in an industry that has an agenda and axe to grind. Not sure I'd be listening to what he had to say.

kennyyodune
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Harvard Business review: "China cannot innovate"? Thank-you for clarifying my understanding of the Kirin 9000s. I always understood that one could produce a 7nm chip using DUV a process which I thought that TSMC had developed. But I thought that this process was not cost effective. Kudos to SMIC for making it economically feasible for their latest phone. .But this depends on DUV which, after 1/1/2024 will no longer be available per ASML. I suppose China will have to either manufacture their own DUV lithography or another process to come up with high performance chips. As it has said been before, "mother is the necessity of invention."

jamesho
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I suppose the main question here is whether Huawei's chiplet tech is able to produce results such that the lack of EUV ceases to become an insurmountable problem. I don't know how the physics will work out, but their engineers are clever, their motivation to bypass sanctions strong, and the resources they have to invest virtually unlimited. If the laws of physics allow for it, they're going to get results.

Honestly, I wonder if the prohibitive cost (300 million US per machine) makes EUV all it's cracked up to be.

StephenYuan
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"Big breakthroughs happen when what is suddenly possible meets what is desperately needed."

-- Thomas Friedman

noirsociety
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As always, amazing information for us mortals. I work at the gas plants that supply the chip plants. Amazing to be involed in anyway I can.

owenstv
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I read news back then they say it takes 5 years to catch up 7nm, well it's just arround 3 years now.
I hope this will be a good competitor.

doniherald
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Huawei has too many 5G patents, same as Qualcomm, and most, if not all, of those are in the FRAND pool. The USoA can not prohibit Huawei to use Qualcomm's patents, lest China prohibits Qualcomm to use Huawei's patents. Tghe one that comes to mind is the patent for FEC on the control channels of 5G. The tech was developed by an Israeli company that Huawei acquired... Globalization at work ;-)

Actually, there are exceptions in the sanctions "precisely" for this (licensing patents under FRAND). And also, there are exceptions in the patents for american companies working with Huawei in standards bodies, like the ISO, ITU-T, ITU-R, 3GPP, IEEE, IAB and IETF, among others.

williamyf
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Further, I have to ask, why on earth would China care what Qualcomm's patent lawyers think? All of the relevant companies involved are already sanctioned backwards, forwards, and sideways by the US government.
And I have a highly unpopular opinion: IP in any technology that is "strategic" is already worthless. ASML is toast, because the USA decided their tech was strategic and forced them to not sell. So China has every incentive to tell their companies to copy or beat the tech, and the Chinese Government itself will have their back. ASML and Qualcomm can both be told to go pound sand. The USA will have about as much luck pushing this as they would have had suing the Soviet Union (or China for that matter) for "stealing" nuclear weapons tech.
Physics is physics, and China can and is throwing more money and people at the problem than the West can collectively put together, so its over. There will be Chinese lithography machines and chip design tools, and the cat will be completely out of the bag.

Cadallin
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We've had many issues with the OpenGL drivers on the Mate. They used the desktop reference drivers so it reports the wrong values. It has 16 texture units but reports 256... etc.

omgnowairly
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LMAO Jordan Schneider. You mean the guy that said every single Chinese American researcher in the Chinese semiconductor industry resigned, annihilating it overnight? Mate, you sure you're credible?

bockcui
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TechInsights, an Ottawa-based information platform on the semiconductor industry, said in a report that it had analyzed the new phone and found evidence of a made-in-China design and the use of a 7-nanometer technology that is a milestone for the Chinese chip industry.

raycomeau