DELTARUNE / What Happened to DELTARUNE's Magic?

In this video, Jaru discusses his theory regarding what happened to DELTARUNE's magic, in addition to what this means for the Roaring, the theme, and the ending of DELTARUNE. Please enjoy. x)

00:00 Intro
00:25 Disclaimer
02:42 UNDERTALE Magic
04:03 DELTARUNE Magic
11:29 Technology Supremacy Theories
14:01 Anti-Magic Peace Treaty Theory
16:46 Jaru's Interpretation
23:00 Story Time
28:22 The Angel
32:28 Dark World Part 1
33:43 Kris Can't Use Magic
35:57 Spamton
40:49 Dark World Part 2
43:20 Your Choices Don't Matter
47:10 Summary
52:00 Don't Forget
55:18 Outro

[alexleavitt]

I think, along with Jevil and Spamton being representations of different approaches to "your choices don't matter", they are also, in a way, representations of what players are going to do after reaching the one ending. They're going to have as much fun as possible with the game, or they're going to struggle to break free. I don't know how the rest of the secret bosses will tie into this, but just thought I'd share my thoughts.

[pros_]

I think Susie's reaction to the entire loop and destiny situation will be that she will rebel but eventually she'll be like "at least i can live this through again".

[psuburbs]

i think Susies line “Everybody bleeds” can be explained pretty easily. Since we’re positing that monsters were exposed to more human culture in this timeline, it could easily be reasoned that, while humans may say “everybody bleeds” in a literal sense, the phrase may have been adopted by monsters as an figure of speech. They could have been exposed to it through human media or direct interaction with humans over a long period of time, and for monsters the literal meaning behind it could have easily been lost while keeping the same figurative meaning. I have an easier time getting behind this meaning than the idea that monsters have been bleeding translucent or black fluid in both games.

That being said, I love your videos so much and I really respect the care you put in to theory crafting (even when i dont always agree!!!) and I always look forward to your uploads. Keep up the amazing work!! Your channel and work is so underrated and I hope you continue to grow in the future:)

[bananawaltz]

I really liked this video and it got me to rewatch the opening for Undertale. During the part when it explains the humans casting the barrier, we can see a human wielding a weapon unlike most of the other weapons. It glows (unlike the sword that is right next to it) and appears to have some sort of trailing effect. This led me to believe that humans do not have magic in themselves, but can harness magic through items, like a staff or wand. If this is true I think it’d be neat if we could get a magical weapon for Kris in the later chapters.

I remember seeing a theory awhile ago that the mysterious artifact in the piano puzzle room in water falls was an item that could be used to summon magic. This is because in early concepts for the Undertale combat system there was a magic system that was removed. Some people thought that the annoying dog stealing the artifact was symbolic of Toby Fox removing the magic mechanic. I think this crackpot theory could semi connect to the idea of humans using magic, it’s just the Toby has been preventing the humans we play as from using it.

[missfairrosegold]

I also like to mention that Spamton Neo seems to be weak to magic: Notice how he does not use his high defense in normal route? Well he likely didn't use it cause Susie and Ralsei to an extent are there to shred through his high defense with their magic since Susie did manage to easily ward him off from taking Kris's soul by using one rude buster and he actually tries to take her out first in start of battle if the red soul didn't turned yellow to destroy the projectiles

He only ever uses the high defense against Kris who cannot use magic and Noelle has to be called to be defeat him where her magic just ignores his high defense to finish him off

Also the sound of Noelle call to use magic against Spamton Neo indicates that she's using Iceshock instead of snowgrave spell meaning Noelle's gotten strong in magical power that one iceshock spell can easily just defeat Spamton Neo in one go

[talkingnart]

You know, despite being a theory. I still love that there's a moral here, in the story you're telling. Rather it ends up being what Deltarune is about or not. My grandpa was hospitalized with Cancer about a year ago, and just weeks before he died, I was joking with my boyfriend that Deltarune predicted what happened with my grandpa, and I guess we'll see who goes first him or Rudy. May have been a joke in poor taste but, my Grandpa loved that kind of humor. I'm going way off topic, what I'm trying to say is, the whole point that you're trying to make here with the phrase "Don't Forget" is beautiful, we lost him Nov.30th 2021, and its like despite the fact that someone I looked up to as a role model had been taken away from me, and it just seems like the world has moved on. I can't and won't forget the person he was. "Don't Forget" really is a powerful message, and I'm glad you could teach that.

[aarter]

This is kinda a minor off topic thing but for that bit about Susie's "Everyone Bleeds" line, you're right that a lot of speculation has come from that line but oddly I haven't seen much mention of the other times susie casually brings up blood. Like when giving Susie heart donuts makes her exclaim "Blood!", because of the red jam in it. Even in chapter 2 when ralsei offers to teach healing magic, she trys to act cool and say she'd prefer blood explosion magic.
I guess there's not much to draw from this except that in her mind blood = cool but it is something that has stuck out to me in the great "are monsters blood or not" debate. The only time I remember another character doing this aside from the kid in the apartment is lancer in chapter one bringing a bucket to put blood in while trying to imitate Susie's scary aura

[anonymone]

Fun fact: by taking Noelle's watch, you can increase Kris's magic stat to 1.

Wonder if that'll be important later.

[aarter]

Making a distinction between time travel and restoring the world to a previous state is interesting. I wonder what that means for the fact that, depending on which of the three save files you have, the contents of asriel's drawer next to his bed changes. I remember a lot of people's gut reactions were "parallel universes!", but I don't remember any theories utilizing that detail

[moppermop]

I think the way that the humans were able to use magic was just through magic items. Sure, monsters are made of magic, but there's several items that also have at least some magic in them. In Deltarune, if you give one of these magic items to Kris and check the stat menu, it actually gives them magic. It's believable that a properly trained human, equipped with the right items, might be able to cast some sort of magic, even if not with the expertise of a monster.

[Scarwing]

Further fuel to the idea that the Dark World is where the magic is sealed away:
1. Ralsei is connected to Asriel. Is Ralsei "a being of pure darkness" because he is literally the personification of Asriel's sealed away magic?

2. Is that why Ralsei is different to other Darkners? He's pure magic, while the other Darkners are light world objects given life from magic. Sort of like the difference between monsters and humans, even though they're still lightners.

3. Is that why Susie and Ralsei's magic always gets powered up when we fight Chaos King and Queen? We're right next to a Dark Fountain, the source of magic, and it's just giving them both a turbocharge of magic.

On the topic of the inevitable ending being the timeline being reset, while it makes thematic sense, nobody would write a story that ends that way. That would be the most disappointing ending of any game. I can believe the timeline gets reset, but there's no way that doesn't lead to a scene where a reprise of Don't Forget plays while we reclaim our memories.

[giantmoth]

i came up with a little theory to explain susie's line about bleeding and some other things about her. it's generally accepted that susie is new in town and doesn't really fit in, what if she was adopted by humans, or at least be raised amongst them, maybe before she moved she lived in a town when she was the only monster, that could cause her to be confused about who bleeds and who doesn't when everyone around her had always bled. to take it even further maybe sth happened to her monster parents, resulting in her being put in something akin to foster care, that would explain her not calling her parents, not having her own room and any friends because of frequent moving, and her being very insecure about food.

[Luxynx]

While thinking about your theory, specifically Jevil and Spamton's reactions to learning the truth, a thought popped into my head: what if the reaction of each chapter's secret boss discovering this "forbidden knowledge" will be based on the seven soul traits, or possibly a corrupted side of them?

If this is true then what soul traits do Jevil and Spamton personify in their chapters? I'll be using the ball game results from Undertale, and the dictionary definition of each trait (only when the ball game is too vague, leaves holes, and just to give more support to this theory) to answer this question and also predict the nature of every future secret boss we encounter.

Of the two bosses we've currently faced against, Jevil is the harder one to match to a trait, but I believe the one Jevil personifies the most is INTEGRITY. Ball game describes this with "hopping and twirling" with an "original style." Now at first the dictionary definition of integrity may contradict this trait belonging to Jevil, but as you said Jevil discovering the truth resulted in him becoming selfish and just wanting to have fun. What if his integrity was shifted away from others and towards himself, and is therefore a corruption of the trait?

Thankfully Spamton G. Spamton's trait is much easier to pinpoint than Jevil: PERSEVERANCE. With this revelation completely breaking Spamton, he sought to resist it. He "felt trapped" and "took notes (about soul power, the NEO suit, etc.)" to achieve his goal. His constant attempts to get into the basement of Queen's Mansion, and trying to stop Kris from interfering with his plans in the Snowgrave Route really shows his persistence to achieve such a difficult task, no matter the cost.

Now for the prediction and speculation part of this theory, I will begin with the KINDNESS trait. I believe that some chapter will have a more religious tone to it (this belief ties back to the possibility the town's church will eventually be the location of a dark world, and hinges on "Chess Theory" in that one of the Dark World villains will be a bishop), and the secret boss of it will fear and worship The Angel. They will try and spread kindness wherever it can, so that when The Roaring inevitably happens The Angel may look down on them with mercy and spare them from the fate of everyone else. When it sees Kris and the others try to "defy" The Angel by sealing the fountains, they will of course see it as them trying to prevent The Roaring, an event this character has grown to look forward to, and will try to stop Kris. This character personifies a "concern and care" towards others, but only an empty one that results in an eventual reward it believes in.

JUSTICE could be that of a similar desire to Spamton in wanting to "end the mayhem, " however in Spamton's case he only defied The Angel for himself. JUSTICE will be brought for the good of everyone. Now this may be a bold claim, but I believe whoever this is could be The Knight. They saw what The Angel will do and plans to stop it. The Knight is the one who has begun to create dark fountains in order to bring The Angel out of hiding so they can try and defeat it. However The Knight is misguided by what they've seen because they do not know exactly why The Angel has been doing this in the first place. The Knight is making a judgement without knowing the full picture.

Now PATIENCE is a bit tricky. The ball game implies a malicious intent, whereas the dictionary definition is a "suffering without anger or upset". I feel this character's twist on the trait could be similar to that of how Sans acted in Undertale. Not angry or defiant about the situation they are in, but more or less accepting and hopeless. It will only wait for an opportunity to strike back when " "Ball" is "Small" (More on that later)."

As for BRAVERY... This one is probably the hardest of them all to exactly figure out with what we are given, but one definition of bravery I came across is "the quality or state of having or showing mental or moral strength to face danger, fear, or difficulty." Perhaps this character will at first be able to resist the plunge into insanity once discovering the truth of their reality, but eventually they will take advantage of the situation that has been revealed to it, just like Jevil, and act poorly based on it by "rushing fists-first though all obstacles." Perhaps it could even go down the route Flowey, or Undertale's Player, did and eventually have no regard for others: boldly finding fun in the pain and suffering it causes, knowing it'll all just be undone.

The final trait is that of the red soul. Now although there isn't a trait in Undertale for it, it's widely speculated to be that of DETERMINATION or LOVE as you theorized in a previous video. Now here comes another bold claim: what if the character representing this trait, is The Angel itself? However instead of being a secret boss, it will be the final boss. What perfect way to illustrate a corrupted form of determination and love, than that of a character who alters the timeline according to their own will of what it believes is best for everyone, but not realizing the true suffering is has created? Of course as you stated in your theory, this would be an unwinnable battle, and The Angel will reset everything... or is it?

"Bravery, Justice, Integrity, Kindness, Perseverance, Patience. Using these, you were able to win at "Ball Game"." It is my personal belief that Ball Game in Undertale is a metaphor for both The Angel and Deltarune as a whole. Toby Fox has stated Deltarune will only have one ending, however I believe there is a loophole to this. If your theory is true, an endless loop in the timeline really has no end until it is stopped. You will only achieve an ending when The Angel is defeated. By fighting each and every secret boss you acquire a shadow crystal, and they will join you whether it is the form of a weapon or armor. I believe using these traits together as one you will "de-corrupt" them, weaken The Angel ("Ball" is "Small"), win at "Ball Game, " and is how to achieve the true, ONLY, ending to Deltarune: by giving the world an ending that was stolen, whatever the result of that may be. This is my Ball Game Theory.

Update: Something else has recently popped into my head that may support this theory of mine regarding the bosses "working together" to defeat The Angle. Depending on how you defeat them they give the player a weapon or armor, so perhaps a required element to get this "true ending" is you battle the 6 bosses in such a way that you get 3 weapons and 3 armors for each hero, and only those in the right combination will allow you to be strong enough to battle The Angle. Like since Jevil sees this as a fun game and wouldn't want it to end, it would be better to have his armor instead of him as a weapon, or The Knight would pass on his blade to Kris if you kill it.

[MyBedIsInAWall]

8:10 I think that your reason makes sense, Noelle would think that Berdley was sleeping because she had never seen anyone who was dead who still had a body. Even though he was dead.

[Sylvergunner]

there's also the strong possibility that the "everybody bleeds" line is simply not meant to be taken in a literal way and is more metaphorical which is probably definitely what Toby meant when writing it

[nelleriver]

This is definitely a pretty late comment, but after thinking about Spamton's dialogue about trying to "see too far", I think the motive behind the angel resetting becomes more clear. As you said, humans were not necessarily afraid of magic itself, so it doesn't make perfect sense for the angel to get rid of it. What makes much more sense in my mind is that after one monster gained the power of a god, they were too selfish to let anyone else get to that level. So, after potential attempts of creating a new "angel", the original angel wanted to punish everyone for trying to "see too far" and sealed the monsters' magic to limit their power.

[otttimon]

For the magic was deemed useless due to technology theory there are two counters, Toriel and Asgore. Asumin alternate timeline would mean that Toriel and Asgore as bossmonsters were alive during events of the war like in Undertale. That would mean that Toriel and Asgore would have had access to magic before the tech takeover like fire magic.

[BuckBlaziken]

I mean technically, Noelle brings up magic in the light world, but only when talking about her video game. She says how she wishes she could use healing magic to make her father better. So that’s another instance of magic being brought up in the over world, but definitely far from the context of having the ability to use it.

[paperpopper]

Your theories, along with the chess theory, are SO good that feel like ive been spoiled because i think they have a high chance of being right lol

Another detail adding on to your inevitable reset theory, is that kris already had a save at the very first save point, like this has happened before unbeknownst to the player (someone else mightve already suggested this idk i havent read all the comments)

[ElijahW]

Weirdly going by this interpretation Sans from the first game (who can also technically be argued to be a secret boss) also fits into a similar mold as Deltarune's secret bosses. He realized that everything he knew would likely be reset (therefore meaning that nothing he does matters) and his response was to give up entirely.