The Psychological Drivers of the Metacrisis: John Vervaeke Iain McGilchrist Daniel Schmachtenberger

This is a conversation between Iain McGilchrist, John Vervaeke and Daniel Schmachtenberger, recorded at Merton College, Oxford, in September 2023. With no planned objective or agenda, the discussion sought to outline the cognitive and spiritual components of the metacrisis. The metacrisis is the total ecosystem of all global crises and the common underlying dynamics that generate catastrophic and existential risks.

This is neither a comprehensive theory of the topic, nor an approach to addressing it. The conversation was simply an opportunity to explore in real time how the speakers, with their different worldviews and pre-existing frameworks, would approach this deep and challenging domain. As Iain, John and Daniel all happened to be in Oxford with availability on a single afternoon, they had not discussed or prepared the approach at any significant length in advance. As a result, a shared understanding emerges only towards the very end of the film. The content is incomplete and partial, and should be viewed as a potential entry point to a far deeper conversation (which may or may not be recorded at a later date). A complete transcript can be found here:

Meaningful communication between two large bodies of work can take time, and becomes exponentially harder with three. This inherent challenge was understood in advance, but given the fundamental multipolarity of the dynamics of the metacrisis itself, it felt like a challenge worth accepting.

00:00 Introduction
08:26 McGilchrist’s Opening Thoughts
21:21 Vervaeke’s Opening Thoughts
40:41 Distinctions for an Ontology of a Meaningful Universe
1:08:15 The Challenges of Binding Power with Wisdom
1:57:49 Can we Imagine a Civilization with the Wisdom to Steward Exponential Power?
02:39:04 The Problem of Scale
2:59:00 Reimagining Education for the Cultivation of Wisdom
3:14:23 Closing Thoughts

[danquigley]

As someone who hit their late teens just as the internet as we know it exploded, and has spent the past 15 years consuming this 'lane' of content particularly, I have to say; this talk is one of the most valuable things the digital age has ever provided, for me personally at least. Crazy to think this caliber of dialogue is freely available to everyone. I would pay good money for an entire semester's worth of conversations between these three individuals. I'll be back again to take notes!

[PeterDangler]

I sincerely hope that Daniel or his team are reading this; this was the first talk/conversation i saw where Daniel was the moderator of the conversation. Having seen countless talks of him being a guest, I want to say that he is fantastic and keeping the flow of a difficult conversation going without loosing the thread, i loved how he earned the mutual respect of both Ian and John shortly after the opening statements. I wish that Daniel continues to invite thinkers like Ian and John for conversations like this. Many thanks from the bottom of my heart, i was glued to the screen from beginning to end, took many notes, much to take away from/wrestle with.

[jeremyj]

This was amazing and maybe the best thing I’ve seen on YouTube. Thanks to the 3 of you and every commenter and viewer. Look at how many of us are here - the moral responsibility of attention. Dear God. Let’s save this place.

[anthonybremner-kkrq]

Mcgilchrist and Vervaeke together again is a dream - I literally shouted “yes” when this came up in my feed. Thank you to two men who have done so much to help us towards wisdom.

[suneasmussen]

Finally. For several years now, I have been violently longing for especially Schmachtenberger to not merely 'diagnose' but also open the vulnerable flank of daring to dabble in potential solutions to the metacrisis. Obviously, I totally get the courage that it takes because of the inherent potential of loss of reputation in the eyes of your peers as it opens you up to being called naïve by the cynics. Thank you all three for finally mustering that courage. We need so much more of this and we need it across all levels of society and culture, not just amongst hyper-intellectuals in a wood paneled room.

[rttptt]

This was amazingly good. It puts my university lectures to shame, they're not even comparable. What a time to be alive.

[Hippida]

'Love isn't an emotion. It's a way of binding my self to another person'
I Love this quote. This is exactly how I found love, and understand Love. I don't love you. Love is pointing it's finger to you, and as long as it is, I am Never letting go.
Finding love, the creative stream of creation, is the most substantial discovery of my Life ! <3

[Changeinnovation]

Please bring this trio together again to further this conversation--Absolutely wonderful

[TheHangedMan]

Holy crap... three of my favorite thinkers, together in the same room for hours. This is incredible

[Abedeidt]

This video deserves to be seen by virtually everyone on Youtube.

[MichaelHrostoskiCreates]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:

00:00 🌐 *The discussion revolves around the Psychological Drivers of the Metacrisis and potential responses.*
01:18 🌍 *The metacrisis is characterized by global risks and challenges, unprecedented in history, arising from technological advancements.*
02:40 🚀 *Powerful technologies like nuclear weapons, AI, synthetic biology, and global supply chains contribute to the metacrisis.*
04:32 🔄 *The polycrisis perspective emphasizes the interconnectedness of various issues, cautioning that solutions to one problem may exacerbate others.*
05:30 🌐 *The metacrisis is rooted in the unique ability of humans, driven by technology shaped by the human mind, to impact the environment on a global scale.*
09:35 🔍 *McGilchrist explores the left hemisphere's focus on abstraction and categorization vs. the right hemisphere's holistic, context-aware perception.*
20:28 🌐 *Schmachtenberger raises the question of why the emissary (left hemisphere) became dominant in global civilization relative to the master (right hemisphere).*
24:58 💀 *The prevalence of zombies in culture symbolizes the meaning crisis, representing individuals living meaningless lives, disconnected and decayed.*
27:39 🧘 *Positive responses to the meaning crisis include the mindfulness revolution, interest in ancient wisdom philosophies, and exploration of Asiatic philosophies that integrate knowledge and wisdom.*
28:59 🎮 *Video games provide narrative, normative, nomological, and flow structures, offering insights into what's missing in real-world meaning.*
31:12 🧠 *General intelligence reflects the ability to solve problems by having or becoming something, addressing two meta-problems: anticipation of the world and dealing with the explosion of information possibilities.*
40:25 🔄 *The discussion shifts to the etiology of ubiquitous meaninglessness, exploring the relationship between psychological phenomena and objective environmental challenges like nuclear risk, AI, and economic issues.*
43:31 🎯 *The recovery of Neoplatonism, emphasizing polarity over poles, using the Greek word "tonos" for tension.*
44:00 🧘‍♂️ *Anxiety and depression are not the same; anxiety is not lateralized, while depression can be linked to unbalanced activity in specific brain regions.*
52:11 🚀 *Aspiration and rationality are intertwined; aspirational projects involve binding oneself to a future self through imagination.*
56:26 🌐 *Subjective-objective divide challenged; everything comes into being as a relation, emphasizing encounter, experience, love, and valuing.*
01:00:58 🌈 *Hierarchy of values from utility to the sacred; left hemisphere dominance tends to focus on utility, missing higher-level values.*
01:15:42 🔀 *Sociopathic defection, driven by short-term power goals, undermines the pursuit of collective well-being and meaningful life. Overcoming this requires fostering a sense of belonging to a just world and emphasizing values beyond immediate gain.*
01:30:56 🔄 *Religions, while embodying the sacred, often get corrupted by power-seeking individuals, leading to a mixed impact on civilization.*
01:32:43 🔄 *Despite challenges, there's hope in preserving cultural cognitive grammar and focusing on what remains across power shifts.*
01:40:02 🔄 *There's an ethical obligation for those valuing the sacred and wisdom to engage with power responsibly, preventing its misuse.*
01:44:39 🤔 *Plato's seduction involves engaging the left hemisphere in arguments and discussions, using that process to draw attention to non-propositional elements and the importance of character development.*
01:45:32 💬 *Dialogical practices, resembling Platonic anamnesis, can lead to a sense of intimacy and connection with the collective "we" or the logos, prompting individuals to undergo a Platonic pivot.*
01:46:54 🤖 *Logic's compulsory nature contrasts with the inability to compel wisdom and love, emphasizing the importance of vulnerability in pursuing these qualities.*
02:00:38 🔄 *The mixed bag nature of humanity, capable of both beautiful and horrific actions, is explored, with a focus on the vulnerability of our relationship to the sacred and the need for a fundamentally different approach to ethics and choice.*
02:02:51 ⚖️ *Increased coordination within in-groups, coupled with competition with out-groups, creates a challenging game theory, leading to potential conflicts in the use of technological power.*
02:06:54 🔄 *Exaptive solutions are necessary, repurposing past elements like religion, to address the unprecedented challenges posed by evolving technology and its potential misuse.*
02:11:35 🤝 *Wisdom at the scale needed to prevent self-destruction requires rethinking the relationship between power, wisdom, and technology on a global scale.*
02:15:13 🔄 *Exapting elements from the past, such as Neoplatonism and Zen, could provide a deep grammar for large-scale reconceptions of fundamental human understanding.*
02:28:37 🌌 *Whiteheadian idea of creation: McGilchrist discusses a Whiteheadian idea where the divine Ground of Being is not passive but interacts with creation, suggesting that humans play a role in the ongoing evolution and fulfillment of the divine.*
02:30:50 ⚖️ *McGilchrist’s Wager: McGilchrist proposes a concept similar to Pascal's Wager, suggesting that humans may play a role in the development and evolution of the divine, presenting an ennobling obligation to contribute positively to the world.*
02:33:09 🌱 *Optimistic view of the cosmos: Despite skepticism, McGilchrist expresses an optimistic view of the cosmos, indicating that humans, through their relationships and actions, can bring hope and dignity to the human condition.*
02:34:21 🌐 *Global synthesis of wisdom: John Vervaeke proposes a global synthesis of wisdom, drawing from Neoplatonism, Kabbalah, Sufism, and Eastern philosophies, aiming for a pluralistic approach that enriches various religious and philosophical traditions.*
02:43:11 🧠 *Hemispheric dominance and scaling: The discussion explores the connection between hemispheric dominance, scaling, and the challenges of addressing global issues without losing uniqueness and local instantiation.*
02:44:54 🌐 *Panentheism and reverence: McGilchrist expresses his panentheistic views, emphasizing the importance of seeing God in everything (panentheism) rather than God being everything (pantheism). This perspective fosters reverence and could potentially reduce conflicts between religious groups.*
02:53:23 🌐 *Emergence of a new religion: The discussion explores the idea of a "new religion" emerging, not necessarily to replace existing religions but to reify and reinterpret them in ways that address contemporary challenges such as ecological overshoot, planetary boundaries, and technological advancements.*
02:58:03 🤔 *Reification of religions and philosophical traditions: The conversation touches on the reification of existing religions and the development of new philosophical traditions. It explores how these meta-dynamics can contribute to wisdom, ecological stewardship, and aligning human values with societal structures.*
03:00:37 🏛️ *Institutions and wisdom development: Addressing the practical aspect, the discussion emphasizes the need to create ecologies of practices within communities before reforming education. This involves changing the lived normativity of cultures to avoid education reforms being co-opted by existing systems.*
03:05:30 🌐 *Education should encompass history, literature, philosophy, music, and culture, fostering creative, empathic understanding. The emphasis on IT and procedural learning should be balanced with a broader, more holistic approach.*
03:08:45 🤝 *Synoptic integration: Advocating for individuals overseeing the whole picture, bridging gaps between disciplines, and recognizing the value of synoptic integrators alongside specialists in areas like cognitive science.*
03:15:08 🌍 *Orientation and agency: Encouraging a sense of hope, duty, and action. Emphasizing the duty to further larger causes and contribute in ways that align with personal strengths, advocating against despair.*
03:16:57 💖 *Love of wisdom and being: Highlighting the real possibilities of falling in love with being, emphasizing the reciprocal opening of possibilities over the reciprocal narrowing associated with addiction. Plato's concept of anagoge is referenced.*
03:17:53 🌌 *Epistemic humility: Stressing the importance of holding mystery and the unknowable at the center, promoting an epistemic humility that comes from being open to both the overwhelming beauty and suffering present in reality.*
03:19:12 🌟 *Sacred obligation: Connecting the sense of sacred obligation to protecting reality with clear seeing, being moved by the beauty of reality, and fostering a protective impulse towards the sacredness and meaningfulness of existence.*

[ajay]

What a compelling conversation this was! Great job all three of you. I hope you guys meet again for another conversation.

[STUNGBYSPLENDOR]

Deeply grateful for what was made possible to be said here. Trinity concrescence at work, with curiosity, reverence and vulnerability. I cannot not underline the fact that Daniel is "unschooled". His art of hosting and prompting in this time between worlds is "evidence of things unseen and substance of things hoped for". I have seen countless hours of conversation with both his guests, and rarely came away with the enlivenment these 3.5 hours created in me.

Humbly I suggest that Daniel continue EARNESTLY to host these conversations. With permission I suggest some of the sages that I would love to see gathered in triads of inquiry: Fred Moten & Stephano Harney, Alexander Bard & Bonnitta Roy, Dave Snowden & Nora Bateson, Bayo Akomolafe & Erin Manning, Tim Norton & Rosi Braidotti, Vinay Gupta & Patrick Ryan, Yuk Hui & Audrey Tang, Monika Bielskyte & Phoebe Tickell, Franz Lanz & Jonathan Rowson, Sophie Strand & Emanuele Coccia, Frederico Campagna & Daniel Tutt, Alok & McKenzie Wark, Astra Taylor & Denise Ferreira da Silva, Simon Crichley & Cadell Last, Alex Ebert & Johannes Niederhauser, Marina Garcés & Vanessa Andreotti, Varoufakis & Erik Bordeleau, Gabor Maté & Daniel Fraga, Ariela Azoulay & Eva Illouz. etc, etc, etc inexhaustible triads only limited by the English Language.... harvesting improbable consensus... one conversation at a time feeding A.I. with symbiotic antagonism (my name for opponent processing) towards 21st Century wisdom of "Difference without Separability" (Denise Ferreira da Silva).

“For there are no new ideas. There are only new ways of making them felt — of examining what those ideas feel like being lived on Sunday morning at 7 A.M., after brunch, during wild love, making war, giving birth, mourning our dead — while we suffer the old longings, battle the old warnings and fears of being silent and impotent and alone, while we taste new possibilities and strengths.” Audre Lorde

[BenCohenPsy]

This is surreal. When I saw this I teared up and my heart started palpitating faster than light to the point of near combustion. Thank you so much sir, for allowing two of the greatest thinkers of our time to discuss face-to-face for the first time. Thank you <3

[levcimac]

The most important thing I got from this conversation is a sense of relief and reassurance that it's not just me who feels that the world is operating upside down, with consumerist and utilitarian values taking a dominant role. It's also reasuring to hear their perspectives on how we get right side up via wisdom, and the necessary discernment and skillfulness required to create the right conditions. Thanks, fellas. Now I have a better sense of the creative tension one needs to attune to, to just stay sane at this time in the world.

[jmsvn]

I cannot fathom how important this is for me and for the world. This has the potential to change lives. What a wonderful time to be alive. Thanks to the three of you to have made this happen.

[AaronLance]

I'm so grateful to the three of you for finding the time to get together and share this conversation with us.

Thank you!

[jakehoban]

Such a rich interaction and fruitful convergence between three of the most important thinkers we have right now. I hope they do more of this and it gets noticed.

[Heart-Core]

This is probably the most intelligent conversation in content & form I have ever listened to❣️

[crowlsyong]

39:35 This is what conversation manners are all about— gentleman wants to respond but bookmarks his thoughts and allows Daniel to have a word first. It's a breathe of fresh air. Thank you for being good conversationalists. The kindness of y'all makes me smile real big.