796: Blood Atonement's Role in MMM (Richard Turley & Barbara Brown 3 of 4)

Blood Atonement has long been attributed as a reason a hundred Arkansas immigrants were killed in the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Did it play a role in the atrocity? Richard Turley & Barbara Jones Brown discuss the controversial doctrine, and whether the massacre was revenge for Parley Pratt's murder. We'll also discuss whether Brigham Young was involved in the cover-up of the massacre. Check out our conversation...

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[boydx]

Fascinating Discussion. Turley appears in LDS apologist mode, Brown not as much. 4:00 Turley: "It's very clear from Brigham Young's journal entries that this is not blood atonement." Brown: "If you're preaching that kind of violent doctrine that it kind of leads people to violence." Turley: "Extremists take license from the extreme rhetoric." Is this an apology for Brigham Young's extreme rhetoric? What a convoluted story. No wonder General Authorities sought to control Church History. Thanks to Signature Books for exploring these topics. I'm definitely looking forward to the book by Homer.

[shoup_group]

Loving the daily content drip this week!

[bookmedia]

Incredible pair of guests right here. Great interview thus far. Signature Books is a wonderful publisher. Do you think you could have Richard Turley back to do a couple of hours on the Boise Rescue? I doubt that will happen, but I would love to hear his position on some of the historical claims of recent schisms.

[scottvance]

17:30 - so they seem to be saying that the murders are essentially a cover-up for a botched cattle raid. It would be interesting if they would discuss how stealing cattle was pretty common among the saints and (as I understand it) practiced by Brigham Young (against some of the early saints around 1849 per some journal accounts). That being the case, one could argue that they were doing the works of Brigham (even if they weren't under any direct orders or commands) when they committed the original crimes that eventually lead to the murders. Or course the real fire and brimstone was coming from Jedediah Grant who was much more of a fanatic than Brigham. I'm surprised that they didn't go more into his rhetoric. It was a crazy time - and some leaders apparently threatened to kill or expel members who left the territory during those key years (1857-1858).

[Sayheybrother]

Forgive me for the run on sentences I’m using voice to text:) The interview has been recorded but when you visit with either of the authors again I’m really curious about a story in the book and would like them to share their thoughts on it. The William Bingo party decided after sacrificing much including a lot of money to finance the publishing church materials and paying passage for hundreds of the thousands of people he helped baptize in his hometown in England, that they wanted to leave the church and move to California. Brigham Young had to write a personal letter telling Haight and the boys not to hurt or rob the party and even assigned Jacob Hamblin as an escort to help them safely get to California. My question is why would Brigham feel the need to write a letter to tell the settlements this party is to be treated differently and why would Haight and others be under the impression they were supposed to be stealing peoples things if Brigham didn’t know what was happening on the trail? Also, I’m sure it was understood if they were going to plan on taking things from parties going to California that violence and death would be a consequence. There were other parties who were completely wiped out but the difference with the fancher party is the number of individuals and the Duke party that told the newspaper in California. It just seems that BY, a prophet of God who told these pioneers to do many incredible things because in their minds he spoke for God, would be more accountable for the actions of the members.

[nute]

Did the woman offer herself up for blood atonement as well or was it just the man? (just curious)

[heberfrank]

Paul taught that being destroyed in the flesh for sins can result in a soul being saved. That is the basic principle of the blood atonement doctrine.

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, ... that one should have his father's wife.
3...concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH, that the SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus. --1 Cor 5