The 'New C# Developers' Problem

[aggi]

I'm still not sure when in the video the question was answered

[michaszewczak]

thanks for wasting 1 min of my life. Dude didnt reply for the question set in the title

[deimos]

His answer is somehow misleading - since 2005 there was free VS Express and since 2014 there is VS Community which is also free. Not to mention that during my college (2009-2014) I was able to use VS Professional for free via MSDN Academic Alliance program and when I went to work in IT I always got VS license from the company I work for, even as a contractor.

[nocturne]

C# is "open source", the majority of the technology is, but things related to actually developing with it - debugger, (ldk about language server) or the VSCode extensions, are not (which is why you can't get the C# dev kit in VSCodium).
VSCode is a subpar development experience IMO, VS is windows only and so embedded into windows that even wine can't help and JetBrains Rider is free only under certain criteria and the free plan was added only very recently.

[saberint]

Ahh I still have my code project subscription disks from 2002... I think it costs me over 2k back then

[ReSpawNnL]

No no, we chose to shy away from paid alternatives to PHP. Glad we got there in the end, tho. But the question remains… 😂

[batata_bajji]

We want visual studio community that works on platforms like linux and mac os.

[ArmanOssiLoko]

Microsoft missed out on open source when the likes of NodeJS were getting more and more popular.

There's not really much Microsoft can do as it's really hard to get masses to change their opinion when it comes to software development. If they marked you as "bad", you will likely remain bad in their eyes for a long time.

Perhaps they can make competitions or contests where people from other ecosystems can come, contribute and see what C# and .NET are like in 2025. Or something along these lines.

[youngwt]

Unity was the gateway drug for me, Microsoft should buy unity and have a first class engine focused on c#

[peanutcelery]

Is not 2015 anymore Jeff. .NET core has been open sourced for a long time. What new people want to see is a Visual Studio and an SQL that runs on other platforms not only windows. Also, having more confidence in dotnet that Microsoft’s team actually uses in their own projects will help.

[DOSdaze]

Not sure why he would say this; I learned off free Express versions in the mid 2000s.

[KieranFoot]

Disliked due to the ridiculous title. I much prefer your content that actually conveys knowledge instead of this nonsense.

[devingoble]

I find the people who are the loudest about the onramp are the ones who haven't learned anything new in 10 years anyway.

[deestort]

it’s not that .. design patterns aren’t competing with simpler languages anymore

[carlosjosejimenezbermudez]

As great as having .NET run on linux is, Microsoft's approach to OSS sucks. Constantly projects are either killed because of lack of support (IdentityServer) or the creator is absorbed by microsoft to make the library official, which benefits the official ecosystem, but disincentivizes growth on the open source side.

You can see this in the hegemony of Entity Framework, most other stacks (except perhaps Laravel) don't have a default solution for ORM, whereas you'd be hard pressed to find a .NET developer that knows anything other than EF.

[elraito]

And now we have stupidly expensive dometrain. Our architect saw the prices and we are now on java

[aliahmadi]

Exactly, I want to use cursor for developing api, and also I think the visual studio is old and has a lot of things which is unnecessary

[jbest]

Recently for work I was going to include Microsoft.Build from nuget in a project. Cool, it is MIT licensed and open source! It will however, require the MSBuild tools to be installed. That is bound to a Visual Studio license, and they provide no redist for it. I ended up scraping the idea, as we are not forcing a Visual Studio license on our end users. Incredibly frustrating.

[KamiMountainMan]

Exactly, Open source is the way. But isn't it too little too late?

[dfbdtrhgwtwd]

I'm afraid, it's too late for that... New devs go where the jobs are. And there are no jobs for C# anymore. At very least, Microsoft should have made C# a first-class citizen in Azure. Instead, it feels like C# was added (and not even everywhere) as an afterthought after Python.
Let alone the lost race to JS for the front-end. What a shame!