John Deere 5020 with a 12V71 Detroit Diesel

Talk about a screamer!
This Sunday, Gramps and I made a short trip over to Evansville, Indiana to pick up a beast of a 5020. The man who put this together, whose name escapes me at the moment, also had a 5020 with a 16V71 in it, but this was not for sale, and in no condition to speak of. We will be bringing this tractor to the Half Century of Progress Show 2021, along with out other 5020 8V71T, the 4520 8V71, and our Versatile 1150 Custom. Until then, we have our work cut out for us to make this tractor more presentable, but we can not wait for the outcome! Thanks for watching, and I'll see ya next time!

[Romans--bobr]

Renner Stock Farms.... Congratulations on your "find"!!... a great addition to the "family"!! Just so you know, ALL diesel semis up through to the early 1980s had a Series Parallel Switch that switched the (4 battery) 12V system, over to 24V for the starting circuit on the starters. The cid of the engines did & does Not matter, they All used 24V Delco-Remy starters back then.

You Can change your V12 over to a newer "high torque" 12V starter. The CR (Comp. ratio) of the n/a V12 is the same as your n/a V8... at 18.7:1.... as are all the n/a series 71 engines, except for the (long ago) 1 & 2-71 engines.

The 12 in your JD, must have some pretty "small" injectors in it... with it not even showing a hint of "soot" when you suddenly opened the throttle on it, wide open (WOT).... possible 55's or even 45's... which would also keep the torque down, so as not to over-stress the 5020's power train... designed limits, though personally... I am not aware, factually... of how much hp & torque the power train for that tractor was engineered to handle with reliability. N60 "green tag" injectors should get it to 390hp with std. timing and 2, 100 rpm... max.

The 12 "can" be taken up into the 4 digit hp levels.... but, requires knowledge, "tricks" (re; secrets) and some "hand built for me, my 4 year degree in Diesel Engine Design & Theory, Specializing in 2 cycle and studying under one of GM Diesels lead R&D engineers (designer of the prototype 71 engine) at GM has helped me to "build" 12's to those kind of power levels.... and even 6-71's into the 500 to 600hp range with great reliability & longevity.


The turbcharged versions are 17.0:1 (with Cross-head style pistons) as I'm sure you're aware. One of the "Must - Do NOT Do's" for longevity of any of the 2 cycle Detroit Diesel.... is to NOT let them IDLE for more than a few minutes after working hard for the N/A's, and No longer than necessary on the "T" engines.. just enough to let the turbo(s) cool down immediately after they've been working hard.... building boost under load.

Two of the Must DO's... is to Keep the top end (rack, valve bridges, governor), tuned to specs and injectors correctly timed (height settings)... and NEVER let the blower drive-end seals start leaking oil (internally) and blowing it into the airbox... thereby "coking" the intake ports. I always removed and re-sealed the blowers on my 12's, every 100 - 120K miles...or, once a year as Preventative maintenance.... and put well over a million miles on each of them without having to re-build or send them out for re-man (a MUCH better option than a "rebuild").

I'm sure your also well aware by now with your other two 8-71's that you NEVER use Anything but a 40wgt Low Ash spec oil in them, unless your running them in Cold winter temps, under 32 degrees... then the same Low Ash spec oil in 30wgt... again, as long as the temps are at 32 or lower. I've know many who have used Straight 40 wgt.... but, Not LOW to the detriment of their engines.

Would be Great if you could get a 6-110 n/a or T (660cid - 5 x 5.6 B&S / 18.0:1cr) to convert into another 2050... Now THAT, would bring you some attention.... a "T" version, conservatively at 349hp will yield as much torque as a 12-71 with N55 or N60 injectors... and of course you can go larger on the injectors. The 6-110 and Series 149 engines use the same injector housings, which are NOT compatible with the Series 53, 71 or 92 heads, just so you know. They are Longer in length on the injector cup housing, then the other 4 series (including the 51).

Word of caution if you ever do look for a 6-110... and IF you find an early one (1945 - late 1954) which is Centrifugally aspirated... do NOT bring it home, unless it is running well, and you will NEVER run the engine over 2, 000 rpm (2100, absolute maximum, and not 5 rpm over that!).

The compressor turbine was over-driven at 33% and due to the materials available at the time to make them, they would Not tolerate ANY engine speed over 2100, Absolute Maximum... or else they would "grenade" the turbine and parts would go into the engine (cylinders)... and they had a sufficiently enough of them that did so... mostly in Mining Haul trucks on down-grades, that they redesigned the block to except a roots blower... which they all were (roots blower, scavenged) from 1955 until they ended production in late 1965.

Tens of thousands of them were produced, and used exclusively in the famous "RDC's" (self propelled - Budd Rail Diesel Cars) or "Budd Liners" of the 1940s - 1970s and even later (lots, still in service on "tourist lines"), they were the lead power on the big Euclid TS-24 scrapers (earth movers / "buggies"), with 6-71T pushers in the rear, 50 to 75 ton Euclid mining trucks, drag-lines and other heavy equipment, Many Thousands were used and highly revered in marine applications, especially... as well as gensets, etc, etc.

The Budd RDC's utilized Two, 6-110NA's for each RDC... One for each "truck" at each end of the "car", and were rated at 275hp each. The 6-110T was not available until after the roots scavenged block went into production in 1955.


Sadly the only thing that kept them out of the OTR truck market... was their weight - at least during the time era they were in production. If GMD / DD had hung on to the mid 1970s that issue would have become null & void, up against the Cat 3408 and the Cummins KT/KTA series, as the 6-110T weighs in at 4, 000+ lbs.... DRY wgt.

The Major single reason that the 6-110 did not make it into production as power for heavy duty highway trucks (semis)... was the centrifugal blower, "grenading" at even the slightest amount of crank speed over 2100.... as witnessed in Mining trucks of the era, as well as the single 1950, modified GMC 950 (dubbed 954) that went on lease to PIE on their mountain division for evaluation. The block was redesigned to accept roots blower scavenging, beginning with the 1955 production models... the highway truck's drivetrain, also had "issue's" with being able to stay together under the 6-110's torque output.


The bottom end of the 6-110's were Massively "over-built" in the block webbing, bearing supports and the bearing themselves.... enough to handle outputs of over 800hp, as proven in GM Diesels own Dynamometer test cells under full load for over two weeks straight. It's a real shame that GMD decided to drop the 6-110.... and in doing so, they completely misread the needs of the Over The Road Trucking industry's growing needs for hp and torque.... and the ability to "hold" that torque in the grades.. which the 6-110 could, due to it's higher internal inertia (higher piston speed), thanks to its longer "usable" power stroke travel, compared to the series 71, and even the later series 92 engine platforms.

The series 71 and 92 engines developed the hp & torque... however, they were not able to "hold" it for as long in hard pulls compared to the turbocharged 4 cycles (Cat, Cummins, Buda, AC, etc)... due to their Very short "usable" power stroke travel before the scavenging sequence began, as well as the relatively short (compared to the much longer stroked 4 cycles) and much slower piston speed (less internal inertia) per rpm (as well as, much less reciprocating "mass"), due to the short "total" stroke length of only 5" for the Series 71 engines.

Have you ever thought of a 6-71T, TA or TiB conversion in a 2050? Don't think they have enough power??.... 450 - 500hp from a 6-71 platform is Very Doable... and with reliable longevity! Marine 6-71TiB's with ratings of 465 & 485 hp ratings were (& still are) commonplace in the "sport boat" & small yacht sectors of boating as well as some fishing boats.

I built a 6-71TA back in the 1980s, for a good friend of mine who was an Independent Owner/Operator and owned a Long nose GMC (7500 series?)... and it dyno'd at 492 hp at the wheels on a chassis dyno, in direct (had a Fuller/RR - 13 dbl od) at 2, 250 rpms, and factoring in, approximately 6 - 8% total frictional hp loss between engine accessories and drive-line losses, would equate to approximately 520 - 531+ flywheel hp. He put over 760K miles on it with no issues, before he had to retire due to personal health issues.... but he drove it and faithfully maintained it as I suggested to him to do, for longevity, reliability and continued performance.

I happen to know of a rancher over in Australia, who has a very nice JD with a 16-71(NA) in it!! It's very conservative with "little" N55 injectors, to help keep the power low enough so as not to break too many parts. He does Not "work it" on his land... it's only for show at AG Shows, occasional Sled Pulls, etc, etc.

Oops!!, my apology for the "book"... my favorite subject got away on me. Will be watching for you's at Rantoul.... have Fun with your new "toy"! : )

PS: I'm NOT a "mechanic"... but, I do hold a 4 year degree in Diesel Engine Design & Theory, and specialized in 2 cycle diesels (especially GM Diesels), during the mid 1960s (1963 - 1967), also attended one of GM Diesels Training centers just to get some "hands on" perspective from the mechanics view of them.

I was also very fortunate to have been personally "mentored" (1964 - 1967) by Mr. P. Nicholas, who retired from R&D at GMD (DD after mid 1965) and who was one of the lead designers of the very first prototype GM Diesel engine.. which was a 4-71.

[mar]

WOW - that thing could go directly to a Tractor Pull!

Great to see an Ag family working together to try and preserve the tools that grew our Nation.
From a Ranching Renner in Wyoming.

[Strickland.Patrick]

That tractors original owner lived just down the road from me

[MichaelTJD]

A farmer in New Jersey has a couple 5010's and 5020's with Detroit Diesels in them including two 12V71's and a couple of 8V71's. A very neat and unusual combination for sure.

[jamesburba]

I love the sounds of the V-series Detroits ! Years ago, I used to drive an International cab-over, with a 12-71 in it . Nothin' but sweet noises, and a lot of oil, came out of that beast.

[andrewstich]

Very nice tractor thanks for the video of John Deere 5020 big Detroit diesel engine

[arthurritter]

Is this a Kinze conversation? He is a genius.

[jimvanderlinden]

Where did the V8 that John Deere made at Waterloo, Ia. end up. I saw the V8 being made in the foundry at Waterloo, Ia.

[clintonstubbs]

That sounds great. I always liked the sounds of the Detroit Diesel 2 strokes. The buzzin dozen in a tractor is crazy!

[tonylong]

I bet they're nabers in a 20mile radious love them 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😎

[gmanchurch]

TOTALLY AWESOME TRACTOR! THANKS SO VERY MUCH FOR SHARING THAT WITH US! ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE SOUND OF THOSE DETROIT DIESEL ENGINES! THEY TURN DIESEL FUEL INTO HEAT, NOISE, AND POWER!

[localcrew]

Sounds like two transit buses drag racing. In other words — AWESOME!👍

[killerkane]

All fine and good. I own tractors. I build race cars. I farm, ranch, build stuff. At 65 I know - costly - that one modification creates many issues up and downstream. I have never modified a tractor and never will. But I am very curious of the gizmoness of it. In broad strokes, how do you make the tractor live with more power?

[devmeistersuperprecision]

You are lucky to have your gramps. We live in an insane period. The GOOD LIFE is being buried. What is happiness? Working with your family in the environment of a family farm. ITS BLOODY HARD WORK not for everyone. But you get up with the chickens, work on these fabulous machines, smell the cut hay, deal with the corn. I can go on. And don't forget those damn black they are awesome!!!! Whats left of my family are weiners who sued me to sell the ranch. I am trying to snag a 100 ac in another state. Downsizing for sure but I will die this life style. Keep up the deere work. My tractor is currently a diesel allis. Will need to due for now. But I am always on the look out for a 4020 or 5020.

[kennethpeters]

What a find! Only 56 days to Rantoul don’t get too deep where you can’t get it there. All of the cosmetic changes you pointed out will make it shine a little better. Looking forward to seeing you and the tractors at Rantoul.
Farmer Ken

[peteschiavoni]

I have to say your Grapmps is really awesome. I saw his Machinery Pete interview and collection tour.
This is going to be so cool. Looking forward to watching this come together.

[mattyhelpfull]

Listen to that na 12-71 purr music to my ears

[rudycarlson]

John Deere and Detroit diesel excellent combination!

[Ole_CornPop]

I'd like to put a Cummins 903 in the 1972 1020 that was passed down from my grandfather. That ole 3 cylinder won't pull our larger disks but I know that 903 wouldn't complain one bit.

[donaldjudd]

Haven't watched you guys for a while. The 5020 is great sounds beautiful I will have to keep watching