Calvinism Debate: Steve Gregg vs James White, Part 1

White's bio from A&O: "James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries. He is Professor of Church History and Apologetics at Grace Bible Theological Seminary, and has taught Greek, Hebrew, Systematic Theology, Textual Criticism, Church History and various topics in the field of apologetics for numerous other schools. He has authored or contributed to more than twenty four books, including The King James Only Controversy, The Forgotten Trinity, The Potter’s Freedom, The God Who Justifies and What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Qur’an. He is an accomplished debater, having engaged in more than one hundred eighty moderated, public debates with leading proponents of Roman Catholicism, Islam, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Mormonism, as well as critics such as Bart Ehrman, John Dominic Crossan, Marcus Borg, and John Shelby Spong. Before travel restrictions James debated in such locations as London, Sydney, as well as in mosques in Toronto and South Africa. He is a Pastor/Elder of Apologia Church in Arizona. He has been married to Kelli for more than forty years, and has two children, and five living grandchildren."

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[PsalmTwo]

Both of these men are a gift from God. I love Steve Gregg for his eschatology and I love James White for his teaching on predestination and election! Thank you for posting this!

[GTRalso]

But here we all are… discussing the things of God. Don’t we all love it!! Blessings to all the brethren!!

[SteveGreggVideos]

I cropped myself out of both photos used above, that I had taken when each of these gentlemen spoke at churches in my area. Dr. White has has done a masterful job debating with atheists, muslims, jehovah's witnesses, mormons, king james onlyists, gay theologians, roman catholics, the likes of Bart Ehrman, etc., where I very much agree with him. There's great videos of him witnessing to mormons and others and appreciate how he responds to many cultural and social issues. But this is one area where I very much disagree with him. ~ Jason

[MotoandReformed]

My question to James would be did God cause Joseph’s brothers to sell him into slavery, or did God allow Joseph’s brothers, by their own sinful desires from their own evil heart, to sell his brother into slavery ?

If God caused Joseph’s brothers to sell Joseph into slavery then God would have caused evil and this goes completely against what scripture teaches. God does not tempt with evil nor did He tempt or cause Joseph’s brothers to do evil.

He did however allow them by their own sinful desires to do what they did, and He used this evil deed that they clearly did, as Joseph said what YOU did was evil. He did not blame God. But God meant the evil that you did, for good.

That is the problem with Calvinism in my opinion it makes God the Author of evil. If God so meticulously determined all things whatsoever comes to pass then He would author evil, and this is not what scripture teaches.

Let God be true and every man, and every man made creed be a liar.

[Mandbec]

My respects to both gentleman.
Even as much as I have admired James white in debating other faiths, this one was not very convincing. Steve Gregg really laid it out clearly and convincingly.
Thank you for the dialog!

[jamesers]

24:12
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first COMMANDMENT. Mark 12:30 KJV

[swu]

As an silicone valley software engineer and a Christian, I can assure you Dr White doesn't understand two facts:

hardening does not put new configuration in, it simply doesn't allow existing configuration to be changed further.

You intended... I intended != I intended you to do... I intended myself to do otherwise

[stevehardwick]

I couldn't care less about the term "Calvinist" or the acronym TULIP, but predestination is clearly shown in many verses in scripture, I'm not willing to deny any scripture because I don't fully comprehend God and his grand plan.

[bleachissweet]

I love how much Dr. White uses Bible. Sure he reaches a little but its noticable how much more Scripture James White uses. God's Word is truth and even in debates. I wish all of his opponents did the same.

[GrantDTL]

Is this a recent debate or the same one from like 10 years ago?

[gerardgmz]

I can speak for myself. While I'm not a Calvinist (because i dont exactly know what it ALL means, as i have never read his writings), I know for sure God had to predestinate me, and bring me to salvific faith because i wasn't going to believe.

But that's just me.

[jeremynethercutt]

Spiritually dead men do not cooperate with grace. unless regeneration takes place first there is no possibility of faith.
It takes the power of divine intervention to save spiritually dead men.

[deanfloyd]

Shall the king of heaven and earth not have His way?

[janetdavis]

White doesn’t seem to believe that God allows events without being the author of all such things, but God cannot even look upon sin, as Scripture says, let alone be the instigator of sin. Yes, he’s sovereign over all, is aware of all that goes on in this world, and can orchestrate events according to his plan, but he doesn’t micromanage us. That’s why we are responsible for our own sin! He stands with arms open, waiting for us to come to him for life, and forgiveness, like the Prodigal Son story shows us.White just reiterates his proof texts, and never offers a response appropriately to other texts that seem to refute his argument. It’s like two ships, passing in the night, when someone tries to debate Dr. White.

[tomthumb]

John 6:44 LSB
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:65 LSB
And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

[CRYOUTbibleteaching]

Historically, Steve has said that certain people or denominations have their interpretations of Scripture becuase they come to the Biblical text with the lens of their denomination. Therefore, they are only willing to, and able to, see Scripture for what they want it to say and cannot fathom what it actually says or could say otherwise. Which is very true of so many. I think we see this clearly already in Dr. James White’s, and other Calvinists’, Biblical examples and their interpretations of them. It is such a strange thing to me how one person can read a verse and see its meaning so drastically different than another. Yet the Bible, in any verse, only says one thing. Looking forward to the entirety of this debate. Thank you, Steve. And also James.

[sparkyy]

There is absolutely no discernable difference between the theology Calvinism and atheistic naturalism.

Both assert we have no free will and simply act according to forces beyond our control.

Interestingly Jesus stated:

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

[Gnmercjr]

So we are saved by our decision. Great is man who makes great decision then.

[jasonhed]

Steve did a great job! His arguments were compelling and the other guy didn’t really address the issues.

[PETERJOHN]

So God repented that he had made Man in Genesis but in reality this was his intention all along. This reminds me of the words of the serpent to Eve in the garden. _Hath God said?_