Mindscape 279 | Ellen Langer on Mindfulness and the Body

For those of us who are not dualists, the mind arises from our physical bodies -- mostly the brain, but the rest of the body has a role to play. And yet it remains tempting to treat the mind as a thing in itself, disconnected from how the body is doing. Ellen Langer is a psychologist who is one of the foremost researchers on the idea of mindfulness -- the cognitive skill of paying to one's thoughts, as well as to one's external environment. Her most recent book is The Mindful Body: Thinking Our Way to Chronic Health. We talk about how our state of mind can effect the functions of our body, sometimes in surprising ways.

Ellen Langer received her Ph.D. in Social and Clinical Psychology from Yale University. She is currently a professor of psychology at Harvard University. She is also an artist with multiple gallery exhibitions. Among her awards are a Guggenheim Fellowship and the Liberty Science Center Genius Award.

#podcast #ideas #science #philosophy #culture

[scrubjay]

Mindfulness as employed in Dialectical Behavior Therapy is currently a life-saver for me in terms of surviving chronic and crippling anxiety and depression. I am skeptical of claims that it can change our physical bodies, but it certainly DOES HELP with re-wiring my brain away from suicidal ideation and panic and towards being an effective and practical person who can deal with the overwhelming stress that has been in my life the last ten years. Thank you Sean for another interesting guest.

[bebex]

I get what she's saying but she never really got to the bottom of what's actually being measured when Sean asked. Makes me suspicious of "mindfulness".

[jonathanbyrdmusic]

“You’re always hiring people for yesterday, not for tomorrow.” There it is.

[robertpawley]

I was just thinking about how this help chronic pain and then you mentioned it. I call it a positive attitude versus a negative attitude. I manage my Post Herpetic Neuralgia (site of damaged nerves behind my left ear) very effectively.

[jjjccc]

Very interesting podcast. At first glance I was just going to give it a few minutes. I am doing the whole thing.

Her idea that fear of uncertainty limits your awareness connected some dots for me. I have missed out on many opportunities due to fear of making a mistake. On the other hand I have made many mistakes by being afraid of missing out. In both cases my awareness and mindfulness was crippled.

[wizzelhoart]

How does she pay attention to ANYTHING when she interrupts people that constantly?

[lachlanmadden]

Great episode Sean, you make quality episodes

[denisedavis]

This reminds me of the Science of Mind, Religious Science, and New Thought. Positive thinking and affirmations.

[bendybruce]

Honestly I thought some of the arguments presented here were very silly and the sort of pseudoscience I really don't associate this podcast with. Suggesting that it lacks mindfulness to assume that one plus 1 equals 2 was pretty painful. Two clouds added together in fact equals the summed volume so the rules of addition hold true despite the semantic sleight of hand used in this argument. There's also a big difference between saying that horses don't eat meat and horses can't eat meat. Feeding a horse predominantly on a meat diet would result in its sickness and death in the same way that feeding humans on a diet of leaves and grass would do the same thing. I just feel if someone is going to use arguments like this then they are doing their own position a great disservice.

[aaronshure]

What a mushball of smug assertions. Her research sounds methodologically difficult to impossible to replicate. “We told one orchestra to remember and the other to do something different and the audience overwhelmingly preferred the “mindful” orchestra.” Okay so our working definition of mindful is “not remembering”? And our proof is a coin toss with a million confounding factors. You can tell she’s used to talking to a pretty gullible crowd. Sean’s lack of any follow up questions was erm not very mindful was it now?

I hope this isn’t a trend where Sean feel peer pressure towards Santa Fe Institute folks

[stoneman]

@11:11 I whole heartedly agree, and funny enough, was introduced to this idea through listening to Eckhart Tolle (not a scientist lol)… if we bring awareness and spacious to our body-state, emotions and thoughts - give space so not to automatically identify with them- our personal lives & the world will be healthier and better- Mindfulness/awareness is a great tool to bring wisdom. IMO much needed to temper trauma & the powerful technological advances (that are so potentially destructive)

[ryanrutledge]

Thank you both and especially Sean for the content . It sincerely turned by bad day around and I am grateful for you .❤ from 🇨🇦

[gettingyounger]

I absolutely loved this interview. I knew of Ellen Langer's Counter clockwise study and have been totally fascinated with it. It was so interesting to hear her speak about her life and other studies and she is instantly engaging. I'll now be scaling the Internet to discover more from her and check out her book. These kinds of people open eyes and show us what our true potential is. Thank you Sean Carroll for this brilliant podcast

[superb]

Sadly she doesn’t sound like a scientist at all.

[HGALAXIES]

Very "uncertain"! Very vague! Very "all over the place"!
Worse is that she herself doesn't show any improvement as a professor who has studied this and has come up with "clear obvious results"! She was way far from any such achievement. Very contradictory. Sean has to get a hold of her students and check and see what they say and show both by passing or failing her class! That would be interesting.

[alejandroa]

The gest refusing to provide or cite any kind of proof to her "research" makes difficult to trust in what she is saying.

[SouthOfDodge]

I think that Sean should--nay--must have Sam Harris on to provide a different perspective and a more coherent (no disrespect to Ms. Langer) explanation to what mindfulness is and its many benefits. I believe this conversation with Ms. Langer, given her style of communication and focus on the body has turned more than a few people off of the topic especially for the more high-minded sciency types (of which I am a part). Perhaps then he can also revisit some aspects of the "mindful body" claims.

[criscris]

I didn’t understand the point. Everything is confused

[rajeevgangal]

what's up with this 1+1 business nowadays?

[wizzelhoart]

She’s right! Mindfulness cured my full blown bird AIDS