The End Times | Pastor Tommy McMurtry - The Resurrection, Preterism & More (OPEN MIC DISCUSSION)

[markusandrew]

I would like to be part of your discussion in the future. I LOVE talking eschatology. My philosophy? There is only one teacher and only one Truth. And the Holy Spirit is our only teacher who knows the truth. The better our fellowship with Him, the more He will teach us.

[MrCGal]

Good point brother Tommy. God's judgment of Israel was proof that He would would come with His holy angels one day to the whole world. They are a fulfillment in part, but not in whole. They are a historical fulfillment, but not an eschatological fulfillment. This is how I distinguish the two. Matthew 16:27-28; Mark 8:38-9:1; and Luke 9:26-27 are examples of how 70 AD is proof that the Lord will come in judgment of all mankind. I also like what you said elsewhere about how Christians are also judged by what they did and did not do with what they received. Salvation is one thing, but rewards are for what we do with what we have been given. You do a great job here Donny!

[ellisonhamilton]

Ok, I'm worn out. You GOTTA be.
Still, this had it's entertaining moments. Better than television!!!

[billjohnson]

The Bible does not say the binding in Rev 20:3 means that Satan is on a leash…it says that the binding means he “should deceive the nations no more”. You yourself Pastor Tommy said that Satan had a “stranglehold” on the nations until the cross. In the first century there was ONE nation who’s God was the Lord…today over half the nations of the world claim Christ.

[harrisonever]

Man, these debates are a hard watch. It's one thing to get like minded brethren together to compare scripture with scripture. But when people are just trying to trick you into believing false doctrine, it turns my brain into mush.

[George-urow]

1:39:42 Pastor Fannin unfortunately, is unlearned on the Amillenial position. Immediately evident is that he confuses the terms "Amillenialism" and "Preterism". He interchanges and uses the terms as if they are synonymous.

[MrCGal]

There is dual prophecy in Daniel's 70th week as well. The first part (not literal) of Daniel's 70th week is the proclamation of the Gospel. This is the time of general persecution of the woman in the wilderness (the 1260 days); ; the second part of Daniel's 70th week is the time of the beast. This is the time of the great tribulation. Daniel's 70th week happened in the first century; it will happen again.  I do not see a tribulation of 7 years. I see 42 months. The tribulation of the first century was about the Jews. The tribulation of that comes at the end is about the nations! I agree with Tommy.

The reason that we do not do dual fulfillment of the 69 weeks is because they are only the period leading up to the eschatological "time of the end" ("the last days"). The former times are not eschatological; the latter days are eschatological. I hope you catch what I'm saying. Daniel's 70th week deals with the ENTIRE age - from the first appearing of Christ until the final appearing.

You're on the right track Pastor Tommy! The Old Covenant is transformed into the New Covenant. It is not the Mosaic covenant, but it contains the same Law (which also has been transformed). There is continuity and discontinuity because there is transformation. Jesus' sacrifice fulfilled all the requirements of the Mosaic Law for sacrifices. His death and resurrection also fulfills all the feasts.

One thing that people often confuse about Daniel 9:26-27 is that they think the Messiah is cut off in the middle of the week (verse 26). That is not the same thing as putting an end to sacrifice and offering (verse 27). The Messiah is cut off AFTER the 69th week (verse 26). The putting and end to sacrifice and offering is done BY GOD in the middle of the week at the start or the 42 months (the middle of the week - NOT literal - not 7 literal years). The 70th week goes from 30 AD-70 AD - forty years. Again, not literal.

The same can be said for Daniel's 70th week in relation to the world. The first half (1260 days) is the entire time of the woman in the wilderness (Revelation 12:1-6). The last half of Daniel's 70th week (the 42 months) is the Great Tribulation, when the beast rises out of the Abyss (Revelation 11:7; 13:7; 17:8; 20:7). Notice, the beast and the false prophet come up from the Abyss at the same time that Satan comes up from the Abyss; that is, at the end of the age. Notice, in the NASB (not the KJV or ESV) it is Satan (the dragon) that is standing on the seashore when the beast rises from the Abyss (Revelation 13:1). Even if we take the KJV and ESV as the correct reading - we must acknowledge that it is the angel who had fallen from heaven to earth (Satan himself) who is given the key to the Abyss and opens up the Abyss (Revelation 9:1-12). This is the first of three woes - the tribulation (that occurs at the 5th trumpet).

One of the questions that no one seems to ask is this: How did Satan and the beast get into the Abyss in the first place? How do they arise from the Abyss if they were not put there already in the past? We see that they are put there in Daniel 7:11 and Isaiah 24:22. Satan was defeated at the cross and cast out of heaven at the Ascension (Revelation 12:7-11).

[randallalexander]

You've mentioned first Maccabees in here. Is that something you think of scripture or just historical reading?

[TheTexasBoys]

Google search your theology- Google can translate Hebrew

[George-urow]

@03:01:59 Your position is the same as that of the Church of the first 1, 000 years of Christianity (prior to the Great Schism or Reformation).

[MrCGal]

As far as the rapture is concerned, it seems that all three views that Premillennialists espouse are based on a chronological ordering of the seals, trumpets, and bowls. However, the book of Revelation seems to show a cyclical fulfillment with multiple ends. The first end is in Revelation 6 with the sixth seal and the seventh seal seen in Revelation 8:1-5 with the censer being filled with fire from the altar and being cast to the earth.

The second cycle deals with the trumpets. It begins in Chapter 8 verse 6 and ends in Chapter 11 verse 19 with the 7th and last trumpet.

The third cycle begins with the birth of Christ in Chapter 12 and ends with the angels reaping the earth in Chapter 14.

The fourth cycle begins in Chapter 15 with the 7 bowls filled with the 7 plagues being poured out in Chapter 16. The final bowl is the destruction of "the great city" on "the great day of God Almighty."

The fifth cycle deals with Mystery Babylon in chapters 17-18. Again, she is called "the great city" (Revelation 17:18) which reigns over the kings of the earth. In Chapter 18 we see her destruction by the kings of the earth and the beast. She is called "the great city" for the third time (Revelation 18:16). Judgment is pronounced "FOR the saints and the apostles and the prophets" (Revelation 18:20) AGAINST her. An angel casts a great millstone into the sea to show that she will be destroyed. She is called the great city a fourth time (Revelation 18:21). This is the same city we saw in Revelation 16.

The sixth cycle is Revelation 19, which begins with the judgment of the great harlot, Babylon, and continues until the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire and destroyed.

The seventh cycle is Revelation 20 which begins with Jesus' resurrection - the first resurrection and Satan being locked up in the Abyss. It then and continues until the thousand years are completed and Satan is released, followed by the deception of the nations in the four corners of the earth, the gathering of Gog and Magog for war, the great white throne of judgment, and the casting of Satan into the lake of fire.

Why would anyone think that we won't be here to the end? The seventh and last trumpet is at the end. At the last bowl the voice says, "It is finished." The rapture occurs on the last day of the age with the resurrection. Which cycle do we miss? Pre-wrath states that we are taken out sometime after the middle of the tribulation BEFORE the wrath of God, but Tommy says that we are taken out on the last day. How is last day rapture not the same as Post-trib?

[George-urow]

3:14:41 "Dispensationalism came out of Calvinism"

I do not believe this is historically correct. JN Darby was an Anglican Priest. Scofield was raised Episcopalian and later became non-denominational Congregationalist. The influence of Calvinism seems rather dubious upon dispensationalism. If anything, Dispensationalism pulls a 180 and rejects the Amillenial eschatological view held by Calvinists.

Perhaps P. Fannin can elucidate further on that statement that is for some reason asserted as clear fact.

[calebstewart]

Preterists can't even understand the basic doctrine of resurrection. Some of these preterist arguments are some of the dumbest things I've ever heard.