Why did Norman Finkelstein go on the Lex Fridman Podcast? | UpFront Web Extra

Last month, American political scientist Norman Finkelstein agreed to sit with Israeli historian Benny Morris, Middle East analyst Mouin Rabbani, and political livestreamer Steven Bonnell, also known as Destiny, on the Lex Fridman Podcast.

The heated discussion, in which Finkelstein and Destiny clashed repeatedly, sparked intense debate online.

In this UpFront Web Extra, Finkelstein explains why he agreed to be on the podcast, and whether he regrets his appearance on the show.

[dr.florence]

I'm a university researcher and I absolutely LOVE that Professor Finkelstein is saying it like it is, calling a spade a spade and a moron a moron.

[brynleyjones]

Him calling Destiny "that thing" is too much 😂

[deee]

That… thing’s presence triggered me” 😂😂😂😂😂

[totallynotthefeds]

Wait... Did he call Destiny "that thing" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[doggieclaude]

Who is Destiny, sounds like a pole dancer?

[NathanAllebach]

Knowing Finkelstein's depth of knowledge on the subject and Destiny's alleged lack thereof, he should have engaged with Destiny's arguments rather than dismissing and name-calling the whole debate. When the dust settles, this will be one of his most viewed appearances ever—arguably more memorable than his first showing with Dershowitz—and yet, to people on the fence, he came across as (and self-admittedly was) emotionally unhinged. As Finkelstein reflects here, public debates are about optics—convincing the audience—not persuading your opponent, which rarely happens in the moment. It can feel cathartic to yell at someone you view as inferior to your expertise, but that's not how serious scholars ought to act. In fact, Marc Lamont Hill is also very well read on Israel-Palestine and he had a recent debate with Destiny as well, which was a much better model for persuasive rhetoric.

[penabler]

People are going to be talking about that debate for decades.

[sinerehber]

Go watch the debate. It was Destiny who first went on N. Finkelstein. He repeatedly taunted him, challenged the facts N. Finkelstein presented and even blatantly accused him of lack of knowledge. It was after that relentless attacking of Destiny that N. Finkelstein started to throw insults at him. Heck, even Benny Morris couldn't supress his smiles because those insults were spot on and well deserved. I honestly wish he wouldn't. But go watch it and you will see that Destiny really asked for it.

[ecm]

'you know what three months is?'

[_Dumb_Answers]

The easiest way to tell if somebody has watched the debate fully is if they think Dr. Finkelstein bodied Mr Borreli

[MasterOfInfinity]

The Legend of Motormouth Bonorelli Began

[ptkjuwb]

As someone who had more prior knowledge of and respect for Finklestein than Destiny, this was an embarrassing showing.

[lilSlowJoe]

Im a big time political historian and should be taken seriously, proceeds to name call and troll the opposition.

[ybrueckner]

Norm’s hardcore fans loved it. What a piefight

[kashual]

It’s absolutely crazy how someone who studied it their entire life refused to engage at all with the contested material and just relied on insults

[FroogleEatsGoogle]

As always it's easier to focus on people instead of ideas. :(

[technomancer]

Norm gave no push back beyond insults and even when Benny agreed with destiny

[revdev]

Having destiny on that panel was an insult to everyones intelligence

[cicerogsuphoesdown]

Yeah but that’s fallacious and illogical. It shouldn’t matter if it’s 3 months or 30 years. A sound argument is a sound argument. Appealing to your own authority rather than doubling down on cogent arguments is not a great look.

[MrRonock]

It falls so flat when someone simply appeals to their own authority and refuses to engage with people they believe are inferior. If he is truly such a researched and refined scholar he should have taken Destiny to class and absolutely schooled him on every point he was wrong on. None of that happened, he sat there and was quite frankly an embarrassment to his partner and i found myself only tracking the conversations between Mouin and his opposition