I DON’T KNOW #mtg #magicthegathering

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#mtg #edh #magicthegathering #commander

[Solo_Shuckle]

It wouldn't work, because a unless it's an enchantment card doesn't have escape because it isn't an enchantment in the graveyard

[YKNW]

If it said: cards you own are also enchantments..." then it would work, but it doesn't. A Floral Spuzzem in your graveyard is still just a creature card pondering its options in your graveyard so you can't bring it back with Master's grant-it-escape ability.

[thestralspirit]

I think the solution is in that "alternative characteristic" ruling... None of those non-enchantment cards in your graveyard have an alternative characteristic that makes them an enchantment, even if moved to the stack it isn't an alternative characteristic of the card itself so I don't think you can put it on the stack

[MizaBrega]

It seems bizarre to me that anybody would think you could escape nonenchantments with Secret Arcade out. If there is no rule applied to a card in a graveyard that would allow you to attempt to cast it from the graveyard, it is not legal to attempt to cast it, and it will never reach the stack.

[cthulhufhtagn]

But...Surely it would _need_ to be an enchantment card in the graveyard, right? Otherwise it's not even legal to target, regardless of what happens when it goes on the stack?

[bobmichaelsen]

Okay, so:
The Lier thing works because adventurer cards are weird. Here CR 601.3e and CR 715.3a work in tandem to look at only the instant/sorcery part of the card, as it would have been in the past.

This is only the case for adventurer cards and does not apply to this situation. Therefore you cannot cast Storm Crow from your graveyard this way. (601.3e does not apply because there is no effect restricting the castability check to a subset of characteristics. In the Lier case this effect results from 715.3a)

[ninjaman]

i would say it wouldn't work because the card isn't an enchantment while in the graveyard. arcade specifically says "nonland permanents you control and permanent spells you control". cards in the graveyard are neither permanents you control or permanent spells on the stack. now if it said permanents in your graveyard were enchantments, i would say it would work.

[kryttercakes]

So if im getting this right. The question is whether or not you can cast something like a sol ring from your graveyard for its escape cost?

I dont think so. If its in your graveyard, you dont control it and its not a spell.

Or are you attempting to illegally cast to make which will then make it legal?

Im still going with no.

[YKNW]

What'll really bake your noodle is that if you have Secret Arcade out and take control of someone else's permanent spell, it becomes an enchantment, so do with that what you will lol.

[shademirth]

It feels like they worded it specifically to work with Dusty Parlor, but not let you escape non-enchantment cards.
You can't escape Gleemax (mana value 1, 000, 000)

[daemonxblaze]

You're absolutely right. It does not work. One says graveyard, the other specifically doesn't.

[TheMegapossum]

Isn't there precedent for this from Squee the Immortal exiled with Ixalan's Binding?

[crowcoregames]

first time? what about maskwood?. also it should be worded exaclty like maskwood to clear up confusion like its intended to work with master of keys shurely

[crzyhand]

This is easy, the missing bit of text is "nonland permanent cards you own that aren't on the battlefield" see Encroaching Mycosynth.

Escape needs to exist on the card in order for the card to go on the stack as a spell through escape casting. Escape given by master of keys is active on enchantment cards in the graveyard. Secret Arcade does not give the type Enchantment to cards in the graveyard. Nonbo!!

[raviogalore]

So disclaimer, not a judge either.

But my perspective on it is, maskwood nexus gives the property to creatures on the field, but also creature spells and cards outside the battlefield on any zone. So llanowar elves is a zombie (for example) on the battlefield, while it's on the stack, but also in your hand, deck, graveyard and exile. So anything that cares about that obviously triggers

Meanwhile, secret arcade says permanents you control and spells you cast, period. So that same llanowar elves is an enchamentment while on board, while on the stack, but nowhere else. So since while it's on the grave it isn't an enchantment, i'm assuming it shouldn't have escape

[zettovyker]

I'm team "doesn't work" cause the permanent spells you own turn into enchantments bit, feels like it doesn't apply to your graveyard? Like, it doesn't seem like it would let you interact with other 'target enchantment' in your graveyard shenanigans right

[dkznikolaj]

I'd say you can't. To even put the card on the stack you need to be able to play it, and you can't play this while its not an enchantment.

[lordglitch]

I think no, bc Master of Keys specifies enchantment *cards* in grave, and unlike lier adventures where those can *naturally* be cast as instants or sorceries, you cant cast them as enchantments naturally so it doesnt matter if theyd become enchantments on the stack

[Penndel]

Why would it even work? Keys is looking and enabling a physical card that has the properties of being an enchantment for its consideration to even be placed onto the stack, since that room only can affect active permanets and spells on the stack it has no ability to enable a card in the grave to be an enchantment for keys consideration.

Basically the only time that room could start to affect the card in question would be after its been put onto the stack and then retroactively apply but nothing gave such permission.

It would be like tapping a land after putting a sol ring into play to pay for it, ita well beyond the stack and although it might be a streamline of someone doing "ill fetch shock a land into play -throws down sol ring- sol ring pass" although we as players can understand the improper order and how it will retroactively be ok the actual rules of the game simply don't let those game actions actually occur.

[Toby_Hon_Cannoli]

All these examples seem to care about the spell reaching the spell casting before going through their legality checks, but you wouldn’t be able to cast a spell to begin with from your graveyard without it having a casting cost