Gender identity: ‘How colonialism killed my culture’s gender fluidity’ - BBC World Service

Some people in Western cultures say that gender is binary and divided into male and female, and that gender fluidity is a recent phenomenon. But that isn’t the case everywhere.

In some Indian, Native American and Aboriginal cultures gender is more fluid and has been for centuries.

The BBC’s Gender and Identity correspondent, Megha Mohan, has been speaking to young people from these communities who are taking to social media in new ways to educate people about how gender identity is viewed in their culture.

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[dayangmarikit]

In the Philippines it was also fluid until Spain.

[jaredmichaud]

I still don’t understand the labeling of cooking and cleaning as feminine. Like do you like living and existing as a person, or just rolling around in filth? They are such human activities, to label them blows my mind.

[benjaminfranklin]

Because no one sticks to consistent definitions of male, female, man, woman, we are constantly confusing each other.

[pseudonamed]

Most of the cultures that had third genders were not "genderfluid", that is in fact a modern western concept about gender. To be truly de-colonial we would get rid of this modern concept. In traditional cultures with third genders what you most often see is a partriarichal culture with strict gender roles. Female people generally have no choice but to be women, most male people will be men but there will be an option for a small number of males to be a third gender. All 3 gender roles have strict rules, they are not fluid. And everyone in the tribe understood that this third gender was still male in biology.

[filipinophile]

The Philippines has many indigenous LGBTQIA+ concepts. Baguyin, bantut, bayut, asog, mentefuwaley, asog, and many others. All of these terms were not discriminatory before, but due to colonization and the importation of Abrahamic religions (Christianity and Islam), some became slurs. Thankfully, "slurred" terms have been restored to their original meaning in some communities. But there are still many extremely homophobic areas such as the Bangsamoro, where murders and attempted murders against LGBT Filipinos have been recorded as recently as a few weeks ago. More needs to be done by government, especially in legislation.

[emiliawisniewski]

Hm - the transgender person from the indigenous Australian community who says their culture has a third gender fails to explain how intrinsically binary their culture actually is. So much so, they restrict specific actions to only men and only women, i.e. "men's business" and "women's business" which orders with their sacred beliefs. In fact I had an Indigenous Australian person try to explain to me how un-sexists their groups of male and female activities is because he was scared in explaining his culture to a western audience he would be called a 'sexist', ironically. So, I've no doubt that this person is experiencing discrimination from their own culture - probably because their culture doesn't understand what this person is doing.

[katrielk.]

I adore learning about cultures with genders outside the percieved western gender norms so thank you for this

[matildahernandez-miyares]

what I am confused about is why there are even gender roles, why can't we just get rid of the idea that there's anything besides being able to grow another human being in a uterus that makes us different. That's the only true difference, That's it, so if we can get clear on that wouldn't all of this become resolved?

[marcusmason]

This is taking an ancient concept out of

[AnthonyBSusan]

The title is misleading. It refers to gender identities but the video is actually about cultural gender *ROLES*. Gender identities and gender roles are two different things. Also fluidity refers to a gender changing over time, which was not discussed at all in this video. The four categories that one dude describes at 1:00 are derived from the binary between masculinity and femininity. Also the fact he identified as feminine because he weaves, cooks, and cleans reinforces gender stereotypes. Men can do all those things. This all goes to show why gender ideology doesn’t make any sense.

[SkinWalker]

As a Trans two Spirit Native American who lives life to its 100%, I hate it when cishet people talk for me when they have no idea and this comment section and most comment sections are like that. I understand a lot are just 12 year olds being shitty but if you are not 12 and still talk like "there are only two genders" even though the mounting evidence to the contrary that these cishet people just want to ignore, if you Ignore that you're just not a serious human being and not going to get very fare. Sorry I will use a saying they love against them, Fact don't care about you're feelings! Go read a science book thats not tainted by Christianity or white propaganda.

[shanokely]

It's simply not true? Aboriginal cultural has always been "binary" and he has made up his own definition of brother boy and sister girl? Does anyone care about the fact he's lying?

[benjaminfranklin]

He was observed and recorded, apparently according to him, accurately as male. Wearing a dress and having a personality doesn't make him not a man.

[blackgateboxingxuanmenquan]

The Nadle of the Navajo was not a “third gender.” A real Nadle was intersex (very rare, and a genetic condition—not a socially-constructed identity). A “pretend” Nadle (yes, the Navajo called them that) was a man who rejected the male activities of hunting/war. Even the Navajo distinguished between real/pretend. “Transvestite” is closer to the real meaning. This “Gender fluid” label and “transgender” label is a Western-inspired anachronism being grafted into old tribal traditions (it’s the reverse of the title’s claim—it’s an LGBT whitewashing of history). The Nadle was treated as halfman-halfwoman (Cheyenne had a similar role for hemaneh). These were not “gender-fluid.”

They were respected—within boundaries. They had strict tribal roles as a fringe group of mascots, were treated as witch doctors, and had ceremonial roles as medicine men (or medics in war). They weren’t allowed to hunt/fight, even if they wanted to. This is due to the strict division between male/female roles AS THEY WERE TIED TO SEX. The Cheyenne hemaneh were medics/love potion makers/good luck charms in war. Generally, they were treated as repositories or masculine virility because they were abstinent. They didn’t intermarry, and so had no sexual role in society. Abstinence=virility=war prowess.

Just like Europe (which distinguished between masculine and effeminate men), thus the natives. No difference, except it’s chic to colonize tribals culture and pretend it’s all transgender TURTLES all the way down. So silly.

[clairejohnson]

I love the diversity of our human nature and cultures. Why can’t we celebrate and honour all expressions 🤘🏼

[kamand]

Not one of these examples directly addresses the distinction between sex and gender. It's borderline narcissistic/masturbatorial. This is what happens to humanity when we get so privileged and comfortable that we no longer have to worry about real external problems like food, shelter, and predators: all that energy gets rerouted and unfortunately for the majority of us it stokes the desire to willfully ignore/rewrite reality to conform to ones subjective whims instead of having to grow as a human and cast aside subjective feelings when faced with cold hard truths. The gender issue is just the most recent iteration of this phenomenon, we have been doing this same thing for several millennia

[kuwaizair]

what if there were no gender roles and rules?

[dannymcintyre]

What does Islam say about multiple genders or transsexualism?

[Lureah.Divine]

thanks! this resonated way more than other videos i've watched on gender fluidity
and so weird people are choosing to focus on the 1 or 2 instances that gender roles are mentioned. they speak about much more than that!

[benjaminfranklin]

Sex is simple...male or female (with room for DSDs). Personalities (and self-expression) are complex. Men and women should have more freedom and not think they have to destroy the sex binary, which cannot be done, in order to do so.