A History of Fantasy Reading List: Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, and Gulliver's Travels

Let's talk about my first foray into my history of fantasy reading list with some famous kids books: Peter Pan by J.M. Barrie, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carrol, and Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift. And SURPRISE - two out of three of these really just aren't for kids.

Chapters
00:00
00:42 - Alice in Wonderland
02:36 - Peter Pan
04:53 - Gulliver's Travels
07:26 - Are we still considering fantasy "childish"?

Socials

[billhinshillwood]

The first Matrix movie makes a few references to Alice in Wonderland. Neo is sent a message to "follow the white rabbit." And when Neo is given a choice between the red and blue pill, Morpheus tells him, "If you take the red pill you stay in wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."

[leonember]

I was amused by your reaction to Gulliver's Travels. I read it long ago as a college student specifically for its astute political commentary. Swift was known for his biting satire and offended his peers by sarcasticlly suggesting that England's solution the the "Irish Problem' was to eat their children.

Alice in Wonderland is one of the greatest books and I reccomend finding "The Annotated Alice" to get even more out of it.

Your videos on the history of fantasy are great and really pleased me, as a lover of the subject for more than sixty years, starting with Lovecraft and Tolkein in the 1960's, then reaching back to Lord Dunsany, Clark Ashton Smith, and Robert Howard, and discovering GRRM only about eight years ago. I came to your channel only about a week ago following threads of "WoT" discussions and am profoundly impressed with your intelligence annd rationality. Thank you for you enlightening content.

[thewhiskybowman]

Mad as a hatter pre-dates Alice. It was due to mercury that was used in hat production way back.

[davister]

Got to love children's fantasy! I'm reading my 4 year old the Magic Faraway Tree at the moment. Every five minutes he's all "I'M SO EXCITED!"

[onfaerystories]

Peter Pan is my all-time favourite "children's" classic, and that's because it's truly for adults I guess! 😂 But I'm sure children could enjoy it too because of how whimsical and adventurous it is - but you're right, they would miss the point entirely.

I LOVE Alice in Wonderland, it is so clever, funny and simply delightful in many ways! I found a book called "Language Through The Looking Glass" by Marina Yaguello (originally in French). Yaguello is a professor of linguistics and she analysed Carroll's work (I wish she focussed more on it, but she also talked about other works in that short book) through that lens. I found it absolutely brilliant and it highlighted things I couldn't put words on (despite understanding it was clever) and it made me love it even more. Carroll was truly a genius! Now I'd like to know more about the social commentary he made. So many layers! 😍

I tried reading Gulliver's Travels but was, like you said, bored out of my mind and didn't want to force myself so I gave up. 🤷 I agree it might be more interesting to dissect in a classroom.

[CerebrumMortum]

Let's begin with Alice's Adventures in Wonderland: It's my FAVOURITE book. I read it at least once a year.
It just draws you into that really unique sensation of realistic non-reality.

Alsoo,
I will go to my grave saying there's no such thing as children's books. There are book that children can ALSO enjoy, and ones for adults only.

[JoelAdamson]

Swift was a genius. You should read A MODEST PROPOSAL.

[MagusMarquillin]

Since you interested on both the history of Fantasy and how it became relegated as only for kids, you should read Tolkien's essay "On Fairy Stories", he does some really solid defense on the utility of these stories for everyone. I hear he does this also in "Beowulf: the Monsters and the Critics".
I think it began with the Victorians becoming prudish, both revering the child as something precious and segregated; to be idealized, protected (poor chimney sweeps aside) and very temporary - you get to a certain age of responsibility and begin strictly logic-based thinking and reading. In doing this they lumped all fairy tales, regardless of how dark some could be, right after nursery rhymes. As time went on some parents were concerned on how morbid these stories were and (rather then read them for themselves) new editions were rewritten and sanitized, and often ruined. This sort of thinking carried into films, especially animation which was ideal for displaying the fantastic, and Disney leaned right into the child pandering fantasy, so the stigma carried into animation also being "for kids". I think we're only just getting beyond that in the last 20 years or so, but the prejudice is ingrained in the academic wold.
Anyway, I love Peter Pan; I think the play was for kids and the book was for kids but more for the adults reading it aloud to bond with their kids, challenging them this rigid polarity is silly. The Alice books are amusing nonsense and satire, and I have yet to read Gulliver's Travels (thanks for the warning that I'll need to read between the lines).

[EhsJaySaunders]

I believe I have read all of these, but it's been quite some time. A revisit might be in order...

[danielvanrooyen]

Happens in fantasy community as well with labelling of a YA novel rather than adult novel. Maybe the age of the characters have something to do with it. Like Rin from Poppy war, so many book stores has that series in YA just because Rin is a teenager. Same with Peter Pan beiing a young boy, o must be a kids book.

[thatdavidhopkins]

I'd love your take on George MacDonald's The Princess and the Goblin (1872). MacDonald was cited as a major influence for Tolkien and Lewis. He was friends with Mark Twain and mentored Lewis Carroll. But, my opinion? The Princess and the Goblin is a hot mess.

[readbykyle]

Fantasy's for children! I read high brow literature only.

My loan for Peter Pan should come in soon, and I really like Alice in Wonderland. I agree that the concept is not given enough credit at this point, we've all lived with it in our vernacular for so long but Lewis Carroll just came up with all of this! I will probably not read Gulliver's Travels :P

[AseAPS]

I read Gulliver's Travels when I was a kid - I had fun with it.

[amandaluceroserenity]

I look back on my childhood cartoons and books and think why the hell did I watch that. I didn't see things as a kid like I do as an adult. Some of the adult stuff in the cartoons, books, etc kids don't get. I think either they made it for adults and kids or that kids won't get it until they are adults. Shrek is a good example that I watched as an adult I can see why kids would enjoy it and the jokes kids won't get but adults would.

[radiantreads]

I'm most definitely going to read Peter Pan sometime in the near future since I've seen so many people review it so highly! I only knew Peter pan wasn't a kids book because I'd seen other people review it and say the same thing lol, but before that I definitely thought it was a book for kids!

[novelideea]

Disney is famous for dumbing-down / sanitizing stories for children. Hunchback, Tarzan, Aladdin, Pocahontas, Robin Hood, Oliver Twist… Mary Poppins… on one hand I love that they are accessible and in the other I find it just as “Hollywood “ as what the big screen does to many of my favorites. I have read all 3. I don’t like Gulliver’s Travels. I read it at 11/12 yes. Wonderland and Peter remain steadfast faves and I’ve reread both multiple times.

[Florfilm]

I loved this video. It made me want to read all of those books.

When you said Alice in Wonderland had a lot of whimsy in it, I for a second I thought: Oh is this in the cosmere. Do we finally get to see the shard whimsy. 😂

[morganecachia]

Amazing video !! I’ve read Alice in wonderland and Peter Pan and agree with your views on both books! I’ve been wanting to read gulliver’s travels for a long time cause apparently the flying island in it is the one that inspired one of my favorite movies, Castle in the Sky by Miyazaki !! Have you seen it ?

[ГалинаВоробйова-зо]

I really want to reread Gulliver's travel now after listening to your video. I read this book as a kid and it didn't bore me, I was maybe ten or eleven. I liked it at the time, but i remember it really vaguely. I didn't understand anything about politics and years later in high school i read some reviews and found out that it isn't a children's book.

[pjalexander_author]

Great video! I'm not a fan of Alice in Wonderland :( but I'm adding Peter Pan to my TBR!