Apple's New War With The Web (A Rant About PWAs in EU)

I really didn't want to make this video, but after I learned the "bugs" weren't bugs and were actually a problematic new Apple policy, I had to talk about it.

Progressive Web Apps might not be popular, but killing them outright is problematic at best. I hope Apple reconsiders.

SOURCES

s/o Ph4se0ne for the edit on this!

[SeanCassiere]

Regarding the conversation around 11:20, as much as it is a **burden** for Apple to have to implement and support these behaviours and how PWAs would work with them, it is definitely a self-inflicted problem.
The fact of the matter is that this is a 'fair market' issue since it is about iOS which competes in the OS space.
Other operating systems have figured this (PWA thing) out (for the most part) with the obvious one being Android, but also MacOS and Windows as well. All of them are in the OS space and have managed to comply in this aspect.
Apple isn't being asked to twist and turn to remain in the EU... They're simply being asked to play fair.

Something to remember is that the DMA's goal was always about creating a 'fairer market' by going after these gatekeepers. If the others competing in this space in the EU can reluctantly comply with these regulations, Apple's twisted tantrum here isn't something I can get behind.

[dugtrioramen]

I disagree. Apple never wants the web to be a viable alternative to native apps, where they have absolute power and tax. They've been hindering a lot of web support themselves, but now that other browser engines are allowed, Google would 100% try to make PWAs viable.

And allowing other browser engines to have PWAs isn't outrageous. Just make iOS itself handle the PWA functionality, and let other browsers use their rendering engine ontop of that

[oscarhagman]

I've never been a big fan of Apple, but after I became a developer that maintains an iOS app at work, I now hate Apple with a passion

[ShalanahDawson]

PWAs are overrated because Apple keeps stalling on APIs. It's been depressing to watch how Apple always knee-caps the internet for greed. They absolutely need to be regulated.

[MrManafon]

Your noticing the fundamental difference between eu and us lawmaking - eu focuses on laying out the rules up front, us lays out big ideas and waits for companies to sue eachother to define clear rules. I think the result we’ll see is that Apple will either comply, or start disabling more and more and losing more market share thus weakening their position in an area where they already are a minority share of the market.

[CjqNslXUcM]

At some size, companies slow down and become bullies defending their territory rather than innovating. They've become PC-era Microsoft.

[aykutakguen]

I disagree with this on you, The EU has the goal to level the playing field which is really helpful for developers, since they can avoid the fights, which cost a lot of money and time in the first place. Apple is malicious, best example is with Imessage. Their goal is to hold as many and as big monopolies as possible. Now that they're forced to do other things they're unhappy? Yeah it might be a lot of work, but please, its Apple, they are the 2nd biggest company in the world.

[julian_center]

Yeah, this sucks big time. I'm in the EU, and my team and I built a new PWA for a client less than a year ago. Push Notification Support on iOS is crucial for this app, and these changes would kill the mobile experience completely. If this makes it into the final version, we're basically forced to build a native version. The client sure will love to pay Apples 30% cut and a whole lot more in engineering cost..

[liamsz]

I genuinely feel like this is just to bully companies into using the App Store, I would understand apple’s position if they were against web apps in general, but they’re not, you can just have a wrapper for a web app performing horribly on the App Store, and apple won’t give a damn as long as it’s in the App Store.

There could be a point made that apple just doesn’t believe in web apps, and they don’t like the paradigm, and I get it, it doesn’t perform nearly as well as native apps, and it’s just simply not the best experience, but then, if apple really cared about the user’s experience they wouldn’t allow terrible, poorly made wrappers in the App Store, but they do, so to me this is clearly just about getting more developers in the App Store so apple can get their little 30% cut, , and not to incentivize developers to give their users a better experience with native apps.

This is just, so scummy

[Kane]

I don’t know man, saying the focus should be enabling “developers to fight” for things seems really naive. Regulation moves hella slow but the legal system isn’t some drag race where things get sorted out quickly.

Hopefully people start voting with their wallet on these kinds of issues… Geewhiz… now who’s being naive.

[ventic]

I'll happily go back to avoiding Apple until they get new leadership that demonstrate real good faith to collaborating with the rest of the industry and lawmakers. Great products crippled by asinine policy.

[Netz]

Apple statements are total nonsense. Opening a PWA is the same as opening any website. Browsers already do the sandbox isolation between different domains when it comes to cookies, local storage, cross site scripts, etc. There is nothing to do to implement it because web browsers run the web app just like they execute a regular website. A PWA is just a website that behaves like a native app in terms of looks. Technically, it's the same as a website, running the code and the same web technology. This is why it works in all operating systems because they don't have to do anything except implement a shortcut from the desktop and allow notifications. No different from having a shortcut to opening a website.

Just imagine the nonsense of Apple's statement. Having a shortcut on your home screen that opens a website is something challenging they can't implement for security reasons? This is laughable. In particular, when it already works, and they are just removing existing features that work today.

The real reason? European developers and startups are moving towards progressive apps to escape Apple's Draconian app store rules. Developers started to boycott Apple for their new malicious complaint with the DMA legislation in Europe that goes in effect in Match. In the developers' community, it was basically, just don't do native apps, go with the PWA approach. Apple is so afraid of this boycott that they decided to go nuclear and cripple PWA's entirely.

It's their way to disrupt and kill web apps entirely, so developers have no choice but to code natively for iOS or don't release anything for iPhone users. Apple acting as the gateway keeper they are. Apple is the worst tech company that has ever existed. Not even Microsoft went this far. It seems Apple has absolutely no moral or respect towards its customers and will go to any length to remove features on devices they already paid so they can show the middle finger to EU legislators. Since the Internet exists, I don't think any company tried to kill the web with such violence.

Android 15 is adding more features for web apps, such as being able to stick web apps to memory for faster loading, and meanwhile, Apple is downgrading iOS by removing web app support. What a difference, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, everyone is on board advancing web technologies and Apple is going the opposite way. Don't keep buying products from a company with this behavior. They don't deserve your preference, just imagine what else they can remove in the future with some software update.

[georhodiumgeo]

15:30 uh, sorry but thats all wrong.

USB C was forced by the EU.

They don't really have much open source stuff.

Apple music is available on Android because they make money selling music and Google (unlike Apple) allows competition.

Airpods work on every Android because they make money selling them and Google (unlike Apple) allows competition.

They don't really have to factor any brand damage into anything. Their fans will take anything they are given as long as the logo is there.

But to really destroy your point, they wouldn't allow Google maps until forced, they are actively stopping anybody from making iMessage for Android, they are going to put half of EU developers out of work for spite, they are aggressively hostile to rite to repair. Ugh, I could go on but this is a dumb discussion.

I hate defending Google but Apple is an entire different level of anti consumer bs. You can have opinions but please don't make objectively false statements. I don't even care if you like Apple just don't tell me it's raining, I know what it is.

[aroncanapa]

Im on day 1 of an iphone detox, after 2 years using iphone im back on Android, never touching an apple product again

[Exilum]

15:35 I might be misunderstanding what you're saying, but didn't they add USB-C after another EU regulation to standardize connectors? It's not really an optics thing.

[Reichstaubenminister]

Apple 2007: Everything will be a web app
Apple 2024: Nothing will be a web app

[Descent]

tbh apple already didn't like the idea of PWA's, I suspect this has much less to do with effort and more about them just not liking the paradigm. Considering how long it took to get notifications I just don't buy the overhead was too much. Easily they could have made it so third party engines had to meet specific standards and gone from there. The fact there was no effort I think is pretty damming as far as that goes. I also suspect this isn't the end of EU only features being removed. But time will tell

[nightshade]

I wonder if apple killed pwa because with other browser engines apples loses the control safari would have given them, this means for example Netflix can create a pwa where you can install and use it outside of apple store and handle payments outside of apple, apple looses control to monitize. Their security excuses is sorta sorta flimsy as OSs are generally in charge of process isolation and such. If they were relying on safari (user land app) to secure their system, that says a lot about the security of their os.

[cameramaker]

@16:00 - doing this properly is a very simple task - launch all PWA's in Safari. EU DMA was about web browsing and freedom of choice of a browser engine. They had no objection to PWAs. So again - Apple is doing a stupid thing, because they want to blame EU, as they have absolutely no respect to any authority and they try to proceed with their rules. Glad we are in EU.. and we can just do a middle finger to Apple - beause no company should be above the law. Above a whole continent. We do care, even if US do not care. They are just showing how stupid and iSheep are they there.

[migidoes]

Apple has always hated the web and actively uses Safari and iOS to make the web worse