Are Destiny 2 Veteran Players Toxic if they say NO? (unpopular opinion I say they are not)

Are Destiny 2 Veteran Players Toxic if they say NO? (an unpopular opinion I say they are not). Some players are stating that it is a Destiny 2 Veteran Player's responsibility to teach new light or casual players how to do endgame. I say it is not and that the responsibility falls on the shoulders of the game developer. Doing "HELPS" and teaching takes time and patience, it is not for everyone. Personally, I love helping but at the same time I understand other players have other things to do so it isn't for everyone.

A couple of great streamers that do a lot of Destiny 2 help carries:

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[GMDGeek]

What are your thoughts? While I think a traditional MMO community is there to help grow clans and new players it has never been their responsibility to teach or gear new or casual players. Traditionally in every game I have ever played it has fallen on me to put the time in to get ready for endgame. Then once at endgame to learn what I can then roll up the sleeves and starting doing. Endgame rewards should then reflect that extra level of effort. AS an FYI if you players venture into a RAID or Dungeon Bungie has done a good job of slowly introducing players to the raid mechanics teaching you what to do as you progress through the raid...

[TheXtreme]

I’ve personally been “Toxic” I’ve kicked “squeakers” (people that sound very young) because in my experience it makes the time investment and I have work in the morning. However I am not doing this to hurt the other player in any way, I’ve done sherpas before and even taught a group that claimed they knew what to do, however that’s only if I have time and in my opinion you have to respect peoples time. I’ve been these people I understand what it is like to not know anything, there are people that want to help you however don’t expect sunshine and joy when you join a raid that wants a fast run because this is their only time on because their job or even kids. I can almost guarantee that this problem will go away with an in game LFG because new players will have easy access to people and hopefully there will be a Sherpa LFG option.

[VeteranGuardian]

This is a great topic to talk about. As you may know, I'm done with the game, but I have lots of experience in the field of helps. I met CB back in 2018 and together we did helps/carries and for a long time it was a fundamental part of the stream and I believe it's a huge piece of why the community has gotten to where it is, but I grew away from helping people because over the years I've noticed things. As the guy who sits in silence while the streamer does his thing during the helps it leaves time to kind of observe. Helping people is not something anybody HAS to do, but some are kind enough to do so and people start to take it for granted. You start to notice some people come to expect it as if it's owed to them, like you work for them or something. Then you have the people that have become regulars to the helps. These are the kind who either don't listen or don't retain the information you give them on any given activity or encounter. Most of the time you brush it off, but after the 5th or 6th time you really start paying attention. While on its own helping someone regularly seems pretty harmless, as a veteran player it upsets me beyond belief when someone I go out of my way to help doesn't listen to me or take my advice. It's incedibly frustrating. I guess that's really what pushed me away from it all. There is a vast majority of people who only want the quick completion or want to play with a streamer or whatever and thus just use your goodwill because they believe you won't say no.

[DryRot]

This has been my favorite game since 2015. I’m 53 years old. I use to be in a clan years ago, but, cliques killed the group and always will. This season I’m 1620 and climbing. No friends, no clan, no raids. The culture and mentality Bungie has promoted has forced people into solo play.

[mreasyclap]

As a person who's played with Geek a lot I can vouch he is just toxic in general; never kills ads on his side, uses the unstable light to kill us all, shoots div at the wall instead of boss, etc etc.

Clearly a joke. Love you Geek 💜

[DarkLgacy]

As someone with 2000 + hours I totally understand what you are saying. I've had plenty of time helping people and teaching them but a lot of people have made it unbearable because they might not listen or I end up soloing whatever it may be. It just ruins it for veterans even when they do enjoy helping others. But I respect your honesty and you definitely got my sub

[thesanctionedone]

Well said. LFG is hit or miss. I've had good and bad groups. I've sherpa'd and been sherpa'd. I learned by doing my homework, trial and error. I help where I can and always try to be a good teammate, but if the group is toxic I'm out.

[DreamTransfer]

Absolutely agree. Many of the less skilled or less experienced players have developed this sort of culture where it is encouraged to insult the more skilled or experienced players (be it PvE or PvP) and call them toxic when it is their own entitlement causing them to miss the fact that not a single player is obligated to help any other player in any circumstance. They seem to think that is "toxicity" when it's simply choosing to play the game the way one wants to play it. Great video.

[meepsun]

100% agree, playing since the d1 beta I always learned shit myself or would look into early guides for stuff like getting destination materials. Those resources should be in the game instead of people being forced to go to outside sources for help. However just because the game is currently lacking in meaningful explanations, doesn't mean that Vets should be obligated to help every newbie they meet. I personally love helping new players when possible but I also don't want to spend my entire time on D2 doing carries each week. Also loved the other video you did on the Light Fall preorder cancellation. We should do some raids or something again sometime cause it's been a while. Anyways keep up the great content Geek 👍

[despair-senpai]

I've been playing since D2 launch night but I've given up on all endgame content, back when I still tried there would always be players joining the discords and immediately requesting a raid, they would then get angry and leave if people didn't immediately respond.

[Turner]

We used to help people get through raids a few years ago. We helped around about 1000 people get the 5 raids done before they went away with beyond light. Most of the time it was fun, but we occasionally got people that didn't want to do anything. I don't know if you've ever been stuck in GoS for 6 hours trying to get someone Div, but yeah that really took the fun out of it and made it feel like a job I wasn't being paid for. All the people in my clan that used to stream have stopped now so we don't do the sherpas anymore and just run the content for ourselves.

[johngriffiths]

Just found your channel, (critique of D2 and asking for lightfall refund video brought me here). Love what you're selling, objective, impartial and educated, thank you 👍👍

[syqe]

Great topic! I’m a veteran player with close to 3000 hours and multiple day 1 raid completions all done with the same group of people, all i want to do is jump on with my clan mates and play, when i’m not with my clan, i’ll play solo, sometimes i’ll host LFG’s for seasonal activities like master ketchcrash but thats because they’re relatively easy to do.

It isn’t my responsibility, or any veterans responsibility, to teach new players how to play the game, thats the game developers responsibility, and if the devs have to rely on veteran players helping new players instead of their own in-game systems doing it, then bungie really need to give their heads a shake and revamp the new light experience.

Also nice to hear from a fellow IT person, I myself work in corporate IT and absolutely love it.

[seanwalsh]

We just had a situation in my clan with a brand new player who first asked us to buy the dlc for them after a free week to play the dlc and we saw they were completely brain dead and wouldn’t listen. Eventually us admins decided we were done with that person and ignored them because they wouldn’t learn or listen

[Nwaaah]

As someone with anxiety, I can 100% relate to that idea of not wanting to be ridiculed or look stupid in front of people who know content more than myself whenever I try to get into higher end raid content.

BUT.

I've played 70% of my time since the very beginning of Destiny 2 as a Solo player. Got Whisper solo back in the day, Outbreak, and now I have done solo flawless for every single Dungeon in the game. Why am I saying that? Well, to hammer in the fact that if you want to get good at something, you go for some trial and error outside of the content you aspire to do like raids. My first ever raid was Eater of Worlds back in Curse, hadn't even done Leviathan yet and I was a complete nervous wreck. I messed up at times, but trial and error was what got me by.

Moral of the story, play the game outside of that endgame content. Just take your time and learn, power up, gear up and make the push up the ladder when you can.

[theguywithone]

D1 Day 1 vet. I’ll help anyone with anything any time. I don’t expect anything from anyone else. It’s my choice to help.

It’s everyone’s choice to help and you don’t know what is going on with them in their lives, schedules or how long they have been playing nonstop.

[williamhodge]

I've watched ur two streams now I agree with ur overview of D2 it is on bungie to help new lights like myself, I am the nervous plyr you were talking abt I've only done a couple of raids which was a bit overwhelming I am now trying to get better at the game I did my first solo GM jt the other day, you as a veteran have every right to have any opinion that you want think it's jt the way of things in general these days everyone wants it all without putting any effort .

[Yashieyama]

I had to pause this video for just a moment so share my brief opinion on this matter, as a veteran player, I've came across many players who didn't know what to do and I taught them the ropes on how to complete certain activities and eventually they became veterans themselves and they helped others in return. I'm proud that I've done that and I had no regrets then, but that was destiny 1 and early destiny 2. Since then, I've played less with friends on destiny 2 cause the community has been diminishing as each season becomes less of a fun grind and more of a chore grind. The objectives are boring and I don't play 8 hrs a day anymore like I use to. I usually play 2 hrs or less either in a day or a week depending on how far I am in the season, and the rewards become less intriguing. The only rewards I grind for these days are from raids or dungeons now, and after countless carries in raids or dungeons I learn one thing that annoyed me about new players, atleast when it comes to these raids or dungeons. There are a lot of destiny 2 content creators whose entire channels are dedicated to informing players, veterans or noobies on many things. Including giving everyone guides on how to complete such raids or dungeons, all of this is available for anyone to look up. But instead of spending 20 minutes of their time to at least educate themselves on how to do these activities so they don't burden everyone else on how to teach them from scratch. They just hop into a team with zero research on what they are getting themselves into. Back then I had near endless patience for these players. But this game as become less and less fun and I'm less inclined to help them as much as I use to. I still do but I would at least ask them to watch a guide first. If that is what makes us veterans toxic then I am proud to be toxic.

PS: I'm 14 minutes in now and he just brought up something I forgot to mention and the reason new players annoyed me when not watching guides. Unless any new player is a very fast learner, my experience with new players who didn't bother to watch guides ( again, available for anyone who wants to have an academic understanding of what they are prepping for, like gms, raids, or dungeons) they make my 1 hour average long runs into 4-8 hours long. Most of the time it causes other players to opt out because so much time is wasted and we don't even finish the activities. But once they do watch a guide that can be as long as 50 minutes or as short as 10. It takes about a couple wipes for us to complete these activities without too much issue. So again, it really does annoy me when new players don't use their time to learn what they are getting into from tutorials or guides by the content creators, but instead expect us to hold their hand going into an endgame activity blind. I have patience for anyone who at the very least watched guides. Cause I am willing to talk about strategies to help out new players. Not talk about every little detail as to how the mechanics of each raid or dungeon works.

[Familiar]

No player that gets on to invest time in a game should be held hostage under threat of being considered toxic because some players feel that it's anyone's responsibility to play the content for them. Learn the game and have fun time doing it

[brianwilson]

Right not their job to carry you greatly if they do but don't have to