You Can't Get Great Two-Channel Audio from a Home Theater System?

I often hear audiophiles claim you can't get great two-channel fidelity from a home theater system. This is a myth and if you address these four major issues I identify in this video, you will surely achieve great fidelity for two-channel as well as multi-channel surround music and movie watching.
0:00 Introduction
1:15 Bad Speaker Positioning
4:45 Overtreated Room
6:43 Bad Subwoofer Integration
8:22 Bad Seating Positioning
9:35 AT Sceen Tip

Subwoofers:

AV Receivers:

Speakers:

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#audiophile #hometheater #music

[ShamuXEagleDriver]

These shorter, more focused, discussions are much more useful and enjoyable than either the 1 hr+ long winded guest videos or the very short, almost gimmicky, YT Shorts. This format is about perfect.
Thanks.

[lordsagat]

I'm really glad you talked about the phantom center effect. Many times I put my ear to the center channel thinking it was playing. Glad to know I'm doing something right LOL!

[gregbartley]

I was an audio enthusiast long before Ht was a thing. I’ve assembled what I consider to be a system that does 2 channel and Ht very well. I followed all your suggestions except for foam behind the screen. My main l/r speakers are 3’ off the rear wall and nearly 2’ off the side walls. I also use l/r speakers that are very highly regarded for music listening

[jim]

Hi Gene,
I’ve watched many of your videos but this is the first time I’ve been compelled to comment.
This is such an interesting topic.
For those that are fortunate enough to have a dedicated room it’s an even more interesting one. Common practice/aspirations for dedicated home theatre is for it to look like, well, a theatre or a screening room.
It is because of this that your number one solution is spot on!
The positioning of the Left and right speakers is so important, they need to be out from the walls, no amount of dsp correction can fix this.That’s not to say your other solutions aren’t important as well. Ha
Great channel.
Many thanks and keep up the good work.

[genkifd]

I use to play music more than watch movies in my HT setup. what i've found is many receivers just are not upto the task in regards to bringing good quality power for a 2 channel listening.

[daveycrockett]

I get amazing 2 channel music listening from my home theater. This video made me happy. Made me
Happy because people will say that all the time you can’t get good 2 channel from a home theater and just the fact that I did it right so I can. The way that I accomplished this was through speaker placement ofcourse and sun integration. From my seating position I have the equilateral triangular effect going where my speakers are about the same distance apart as my seat is from them. I have the toe in really locked in well creating the best phantom center I’ve ever heard. I feel my sub blends right in with my mains very well even though I run no room correction or rew. I will get to this in the future. Even without that the music that comes from my system 2 channel or Dolby surround is astonishing!

[billsiemer]

Yes. Set it up for stereo first. When you have good depth and imaging then set up your surround. Use a similar speaker for the center but the rest aren't as important. Been using this method for thirty years. Works very well for me.

[darinlasater]

Great content Gene! I previously followed the typical formulas for seating location and LCR placement and was disappointed in the results. I just kept moving my seats and speaker placement until I found the magic combination. It is amazing how much of a difference it can make. I agree with your recommendation to get good two-channel sound first and build your HT sound around that, starting with a strong matched center channel.

[dirtkeepsthefunk]

Yes, indeed, bring back Matthew Poes! Always appreciate his deep understanding of acoustics, and how he communicates the nuisances of audio in an intelligible way. Keep up the great videos and work Gene -- Audioholics is one of only a few places on the web that offers pragmatic information, discussions, videos, reviews, etc. devoid of gobbledygook, snake oil, and pseudoscience.

[DavidKowalski]

Saying one must choose between good multi-channel and good two-channel audio in the same room is a bit like saying one must choose between speakers that look good and speakers that sound good. It is a false dichotomy -- one that I have most frequently heard from two-channel-only enthusiasts that look down upon those who enjoy home theater as though we are not as sophisticated as they are and can't possibly be enjoying two-channel music properly in a home-theater setting. This bias is confirmed for them by one or more experiences they have had in which they disliked the sound of music played in a home-theater room. I believe your video sufficiently addressed the issues that might have caused their posture.

[slyfox]

I live in a peculiar townhome and don't have a lot of options to where I have my media room where I listen to music and watch movies....so I am pretty limited on quality of what I can get...however, I think I have done pretty good with trying to get good quality sound either for two channel listening or home theater. I am thinking I might need to go with a smaller sub...I am feeling my room size might just be too small for the Martin Logan I have. but I am pretty pleased with my set up. I definitely agree with speaker positioning....wow is that important. Even moving my speakers not far I can get totally different sound stage and quality. My current set up is B&W 603 S2, B&W M1 center, and some definitive technology promonitor 600s for surround backs..my room is small and ceiling pretty low to even think about trying to dolby atmos. My receiver is Pioneer Elite VSX-LX305

[troywiggins]

Excellent video! I’ve made some updated purchases over the last 3 years with Denon 3600h, a Monolith 7x7 amp and added 2 SVS 2000 but still have my Paradigm studio 100s for the past 20+ yrs for my mains. I’ve been playing with speaker positioning and sub integration on and off for the last year and I think I may have gotten as close to perfect as I can. I have found that my mains were to far apart in our new family room so I brought them in about a foot and keeping them straight not toed in so much. I get great info from your site Gene, it’s rekindled a audio enthusiast passion.

[gjhunter]

This is a difficult topic Gene and kudos for taking it on. IMHO double duty for dedicated HT a 2 channel inevitably is all about priorities and compromises. As you allude to in your video, the optimal acoustic environments for optimal performance are just different. What can be said is that for good enough performance on both, they do not have to be mutually exclusive. At the end of the day, one will end up taking priority over the other. In my first, and most extensive dedicated build in 2003, I optimized for 2 channel audio in regards to listening position (pretty much exactly like yours), acoustic treatment goals and speaker placement. It sounded phenomenal for 2 channel music. It was damped enough but allowed for an excellent balance of live sound with fantastic sound stage and imaging on two channel yet was not overly reverberant for surround sound movie experiences. This was before the days of the discreet channel immersive audio of today. I've also built a dedicated HT only room and it sounds ok for music, but certainly doesn't pass the mustard for critical listening of music.

The limiting factors are commonly two fold. Room dimension and projector screen size, but not necessarily just the effect of the screen material. Again, as you mention in the video (and all your excellent videos), to get the best out of most 2 channel speakers, they need to be away from the back and the side walls to "breathe" a little. Of course that is speaker dependent but I would venture to say that most speakers certainly do. So you can't stuff high quality speakers up against the wall and against the side walls, they need to be out in the room, as you have done. Some speakers need more space others. But if you use a projection screen, it has to fit between the speakers with unobstructed sight lines from all seating positions. Unless you have a massively wide room (like your new dedicated theater), that may mean a pretty narrow (e.g. small) screen width. If you sit in the center, you can see the edges without those fronts blocking the sides, but if you are off to one side or the other, the screen will be covered by the speaker. The compromise then, for many, means you must choose between optimal 2 channel performance (speaker size, design and position) or an immersive visual experience, i.e. big screen (sub optimal speaker position, design or size).

It bears mentioning that perhaps some of the best 2 channel speakers simply cannot create a satisfying sound pressure level at anywhere near the THX specifications. For example, do you want open baffle or planar or stats to play at 100+ db at 3m without breaking apart in a room with an RT60 of 200-300? Good luck. Many of the best cone inside of cabinets can't do it either. Of course some can thankfully, but it certainly can restrict your choice of speakers. So here we are again with yet another compromise (albeit one that many probably have no problem making with good reason).

So, the question really becomes whether the two can co-exist for a "good enough" experience versus "great"? That is simply up to the individual. Die hard audiophiles, you know the ones, with all the cost no object high end equipment prominently on display rather than tucked into an equipment closet, will likely say "no". Those die hard movie guys, who don't spend nearly the same amount of time listening to music as they do watchiing movies, will likely say "yes". The rest of us are somewhere on on the continuum between. There is no right answer. There is no wrong one either. It makes for interesting discussion.

[hifihometheater]

I love this topic. Thank you. I would like to add that most people think you cannot get a good two channel experience with a surround processor or AVR.

[charlesking]

This should be the length of most of your videos. The hour plus length is hard to watch what is basically a zoom call. I like this and I anticipate the majority of your audience will appreciate this shorter most direct and to the point content.

[slode]

Absolutely you can. I'm an audiophile before movie lover but only have one room to setup for both. My Yamaha NS-555 front's sound terrific driven by my RX-A2A on two chancel, very wide and deep soundstage. Close your eyes and the speakers disappear and the musicians and singers appear exactly where the mixing engineer indented. But it took me over 10 hours of listening to get the speakers positioned perfectly. 1/4" in any direction, or 1degree of toe in change makes a difference. Speaker position in the number one thing I see/hear wrong in most systems.

[rommel]

I run a NAD M12 DAC with two M22 amplifiers vertically bi-amped to my Martin Logan Classic ESL-9 accompanied by two SVS SB-2000 Pro subwoofers using the subwoofer output of M12 for my 2ch setup. The M12 then integrates with my Anthem AVM60 for HT and when I run ARC it treats each L&R sub & tower as one speaker. I then have two Monolith 10" subwoofers for dedicated LFE output from AVM60. I love it as the SVS provide plenty of tunability to integrate with towers for 2channel but also don't get left out for HT! Keep up all the great videos Gene!!!

[jonmason]

I achieved movie house theater two channel audio. BTW, excellent advice vid Gene. My speakers are, two two way ancient last century freestanding large Advents, no mounted screen but a large flat screen tv. The screen is centered but the speakers on either side don't face directly into the room.they are adjusted in an askewed 90° from each other. Askewed due to the seating sweet spot. These dinosaur speakers are so phenomenal, I found a subwoofer made my room over saturated with sound. I managed to achieve a faux surround sound. Now, my room is no where as large as yours, but I've been accused of hiding other speakers in the room. My system amply fill the room in al the rightways to enjoy theater AND regular audio.

[eflizotte]

Gene this is very timely. I’ve been very proud of what I’ve built in my room using good components that have been deployed correctly. I feel good about what I have learned so far about timing and tuning. However, I recently have been exploring how to maximize the treatment in my room for best results. I believe I have an overdamped room based on what I understand on the measurements I got in REW. But having yourself and AG go thru how to read what REW is reporting in that regard and how to measure the before and after difference of a well treated room would be very valuable. Perhaps a “blank” room and then measurements after course of treatment (side walls, traps, behind screen, back wall, etc) as well as subjective listening tests to compare with/against the measurement’s findings. Thanks for what you all do!

[peter]

agree with all your comments, as a two channel guy first, the only challenge i have found is needing to bring the main speakers farther away from the screen wall into the room as well as closer together which can limit view angles from side seating and overall screen size.