US election: is the West on the brink of collapse?

After a week-long victory lap in the UK, Sir Keir Starmer flew to America for the Nato summit, where he met US President Biden and Ukraine’s president Zelenskyy - but his Western allies have been in a less celebratory mood than Britain’s new prime minister.

The far left and right are resurgent across Europe, with France politically paralysed after Emmanuel Macron’s snap election gamble, while Joe Biden’s presidency is in near meltdown, as Democrats turn on him after his disastrous debate with Donald Trump. With wars in Ukraine and the Middle East threatening to spill over - the stakes couldn’t be higher.

So, how shaky is the Nato alliance right now and are the strains a sign of a wider decline in the West? The UK has a fresh-faced prime minister, but does it have any fresh ideas?

To discuss all this and more on this week’s episode of The Political Fourcast Krishnan Guru-Murthy is joined by Liberal Democrats’ Mike Martin MP, Labour’s Mike Tapp MP, and Karin von Hippel, the director-general of the Royal United Services Institute think tank.

Produced by Silvia Maresca, Calum Fraser, Shaheen Sattar, Rob Thomson.

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[ihabjml]

"We stay out of people's democracies" lol, only if their European. Everyone else is fair game apparently.

[truthseeker]

Is Ukraine of strategic importance to the UK? It is to Russia as it borders the country (that was invaded by the Mongols, Napoleon, Hitler, , etc. and would be of concern if missile silos are placed there such has happened in Roumania and Poland, not speak of the warm wster port of Sevastopol. Possibly, the same with Mexico, Canada and Cuba for the US. But what is the strategic importance of Ukraine for the UK? Where is the proof that Russian would continue

[ihabjml]

I hate this line about how Starmer can't determine whether what Israel is doing amounts to war crimes when he so easily calls out Russia for war crimes. Starmer is a hypocrite

[JupiterThunder]

A bunch of leftists talking about defence. What a waste of time.

[ihabjml]

There's no money for the NHS and social services apparently, but we always seem to have money for war... Twisted priorities.

[EddieWhitehead-ez]

Who are these clowns what has happened to the UK.

[HarwardMbonxa]

Which "world stability" has Nato brought other misery particularly the countries of the Global South, whereis Libya, Iraq, Syria for example among the countries Nato destroyed.

[briangasser]

Strange that because the US wants to be more isolationist and focus on issues at home, it is a threat to Europe. Maybe Europe (ex UK and France) can rebuild its military capability and develop some economic growth policies. It seems the EU/UK would rather focus on green issues and social spending.

[michaeltruman]

This woman is really not smart. She has a megaphone for her opinions rather than facts.

[soccer]

Trump is a threat because he won’t coddle free riders? What a joke.

[WanderingWarg]

This panel is less diverse than on Question Time.

Three guests who all agree that NATO/US = good, Russia/China = bad, more guns and more military is always needed. No dissenting views allowed, as usual.

[jillallan]

I believe there is no benefit to us having a so called special relationship or any kind of relationship. It is embarrassing.

[richardpeychers]

Russia was invited to Syria America as usual invited themselves.

[James-nq]

NATO is no longer a defensive organisation. Well respected economists, politicians, professors, military experts were all saying, as early as 2008, that expanding the EU and NATO further east was a red line for Russia, not just Putin. The US has the Monroe doctrine, so why doesn’t it accept that Russia would want the same privilege. It’s scary to think that people are building their careers by just saying what they think will get them to the top of the greasy pole.

[susea]

I'm saying this as a Biden voter. The entire point of what Trump said was that NATO members need to pay the 2% GDP they promised, as it's not fair that rich NATO countries have outsourced their defense to the American taxpayer while shirking their own needs and obligations. As an example, in the 'Stans in '18 Germany was supposed to rotate 44 tanks into theater, but only nine were deployable. Nine. In their entire army. Nine. Today Germany cannot field the single division it's obligated to under NATO. Germany is the richest member of the alliance and it hasn't bothered to fund it's own forces to meet their treaty obligations, so why should Amercica do it for them? If this, and Trump's possible election is an "existential threat" as your guests claim, perhaps Trump is right and it's time to re-evaluate the treaty in light of Euro members inability to meet the obligations they've committed to.

[wadslong]

Europe defending against what?africa should be talking about defense against Europe, African and the Middle East are waking up, Europe have no more industrial base where are they going to get that pushed forward from?

[robertseaborne]

It is a flawed premise that Russia is depending on the weakness of NATO/EU/Ukraine; on the contrary, Russia's military leaders always assume that their enemies will be strong, hence Russia is always more than well prepared to do battle with them where it matters most ie; on the battlefield.

[turgius]

Not deterred?

Georgia started the war with Russia....

Syria requested Russian assistance...

Is he saying that NATO is directly involved with both of those conflicts?

[cmonman]

"The evil West's 500 year-long domination is coming to an end." - Sergei Lavrov, Russian Foreign Minister

[vancearmor]

“We are powerful because we have more moral bombast.”😂