Three Battles More Important Than Gettysburg

In this video, I take a look a three battles that play a more important role than Gettysburg in leading to the defeat of the Confederacy

[pegrathwol]

I think one of the biggest turning points for the battle of Franklin actually happened after the battle. And it was a very long shot victory won by preservationists against developers in the late 1980's. They won a court battle, tore down a Pizza Hut, and bull dozed some strip malls and convenience stores to create an actual battlefield park, complete with memorials to fallen Americans on both sides, right on the scene of the heaviest fighting. Thus preserving this hallowed ground for future generations.

[roblove]

You are correct at the importance of events in the Western Theater, and yes Franklin and Nashville were absolutely devastating to the CSS AoT. However, being that the term "Turning Point" defines one specific moment in time, I would have to say that the Turning Point is that moment when the outcome of the war becomes decidedly inevitable. I would say that Southern setbacks in the West were probably themselves, insurmountable, but more to the point they were specifically the reason Lee pushed an offensive campaign into the North in an attempt to compel the Union to negotiate an end to the War by threatening the capture of Washington DC.. It was a last ditch effort. While Lee fought on a further 2 yrs after Gettysburg, that loss definitely put an end to any hope the Confederacy could survive the war . Hence, many consider this to be the Turning Point of the war.

[konradklapp]

I'd say the capture of Forts Henry and Donelson were pretty significant. The mouths of those two rivers (Cumberland, Tennessee) outside of Paducah Ky were like arteries to the heart.... it opened Nashville, Memphis all of West TN, north MS and AL and led to Chattanooga and Knoxville. There was no real defense along those rivers to stop an advance. After the federals set up shop in Nashville, it was just a matter of time...

Dont forget the war for KY... the land south of the Ohio river was critical to Union success...

[Mrryman]

In recent years the Siege of Vicksburg has become more recognized as a critical turning point in the war. I'd like to look at it this way: The South was losing badly in the western theater since Shiloh and Vicksburg crushed any hopes of gaining back the Mississippi river or transporting men and supplies across it. In the east however it really wasn't until Grant took command of the Army of the Potomac that the army wasn't going to retreat back across the Potomac. When Longstreet found out Ulysses Grant was in command of the Union army he told his fellow officers that "He will fight us every day and every hour until the end of the war." Robert E. Lee was quoted at saying, "We must destroy this Army of Grant's before he gets to the James River. If he gets there it will become a siege and then it will be a mere question of time." I'd say between Vicksburg and when Grant took over the Army of the Potomac are the two turning points. Gettysburg was important in a sense if Lee had won on day 1 or 2 he would of still took more losses than he could replenish and would of had to retreat back south at some point to keep his army intact and supplied. Lee fulfilled his goal of resupplying his army in Pennsylvania and pushing the AoP out of Virginia, for a time being but paid heavily at Gettysburg for it.

[AoEBros]

Great vid! Might I add my 3?:
1) Antietam (it effectively removed foreign intervention into the war and gave Lincoln the excuse he needed to redefine the war; 2) Vicksburg; 3) the fall of Atlanta. Had Atlanta not fallen, it is quite possible Lincoln would have been voted out of office, in favor of McClellan, who very much wanted to end the war by conceded portions of the south to the Confederacy. The fall of Atl convinced the North the war was nearing and end, and 3 years of bloody conflict was not in vain. Note, all of my identifiers are political. But, civil wars are political in nature. Therefore, the size of battles or the level of casualties matters little (ie Gettysburg), what matters is the political impact those victories/losses have on the overall political landscape. It's why although Washington was a poor tactical general, he ultimately won us the war because he realized the political nature of the war: keep troops in the field until British support for the war wanes. He did not win many victories, but he won us independence. Unfortunately for Lee, his enemy was not an entire ocean away, but rather merely a river.

[greg]

The Battle of Antietam was the real turning point of the Civil War because it had an effect far beyond a purely military decision. Lincoln used a bloody tactical victory as a platform to deliver the Emancipation Proclamation. This was the ultimate “game-changer” chess move, transforming the war from one of preserving the Union into a greater cause.

Lincoln’s EP sent shock waves across the Atlantic. It froze Britain and France out of any consideration of involvement, partly because the South had not demonstrated enough capability to win a major battle on northern territory, but mostly because opposing the Federal Government, now intent upon emancipation, was politically impossible in Europe.

[robertschultz]

To me the turning point was Vicksburg, and the day the federal navy was able to complete the anaconda plan. Without the ability to bring in supplies, especially weapons and medicine from Europe and through Mexico, the confederacy had no ability to win. It was just a matter of time before they lost. Since the south didn't hear the capability to manufacture large quantities of muskets other key weapons, they had to rely on Europe, and they really thought that especially England with the British needing cotton, would recognize the csa, and even come in on their side.

[roygoode]

Being raised on the Maryland/Pennsylvania border and being a descendant of 2 confederate privates who fought in N.C. Regiment. The question of the turning point has always been beaten down our throats in these parts of the country... That is living close to Gettysburg. Everyone from here says Gettysburg finished the South.. But I also agree with the fall of Vicksburg being the greatest blow to the South... It divided our nation in the South and took the most important water way... The South really took a huge blow from July 1st to 4th... But yet they continued to fight hard and win several famous battles. Great content btw!!! And yes Franklin was a horrible affair...

[HistoryClarified]

It is amazing to me that even with most 8th grade US History students starting the Civil War by comparing industry, rail capacity, population, and economy type of the North vs. the South that Gettysburg still lingers as that main battle. I think most students also go into the Anaconda Plan and how both sides were incredibly aware of the importance of economics in the Civil War. I agree that Vicksburg and Chattanooga had much greater strategic and economic importance than Gettysburg, which was more of an operational victory (in my opinion).

[sillysunday]

Great topic for discussion. I will second what several others have said. Gettysburg was a headline capturing victory. However, it did not change much. Lee's army of Northern Virginia was still intact. I discount you argument for Franklin/Nashville. It was an attempt to distract Sherman and it failed at its goal having had a slim chance to begin with.

Vicksburg changed everything. While Port Hudson still needed to be captured, the fall of Vicksburg effectively split the confederacy and cemented Grant's reputation. His subsequent promotion to overall command was the next blow. He would ensure the overall war effort would be conducted in a cohesive manner. The dual threat of Sherman moving on Atlanta and Grant on Richmond meant there would be no let up on the Confederate armies. They would be pushed continuously to the breaking point. Neither Grant nor Sherman would be distracted by setbacks, supply chain woes or even defeats. They would use their superior access to men, supplies and logistical support to bring the Confederacy to its knees.

[charlietheanteater]

I really don’t know why people don’t talk about Franklin much, you take the winter setting of Fredericksburg, Pickett’s charge, and the brutality of the overland campaign and you got yourself Franklin. I mean it’s almost like romantic storytelling, the confederates would fight fiercely because pretty much it was all or nothing.

[stephicohu]

The battle of Gettysburg was the start of the victories for the army of Potomac. All eyes were glue to the eastern front and not the west. It is to sad but the battle of Vicksburg and Chattanooga campaigns really seal the Confederate position. I agree with your belief that Vicksburg and not Gettysburg was the real death Noll for the South.

[LusiferSam]

Great summary. Personally I go with Vicksburg for the reason you list as well as it being part of a larger Union strategy. Franklin and Nashville can't be turning points as they happened after the election of 1864. Lincoln's victory in the election sealed the Confederacy's fate. There are very good arguments for Chattanooga. It sends Grant east, Sherman south and does much to advance the careers of a number of prominent Union leaders, well as the impact on Confederate transportation and logistics.

[indyfastal]

I agree with you 100%. Vicksburg, Franklin/Nashville, and Chattanooga with the dominos that led to the South ultimate defeat. Gettysburg was a great victory, however; Lee's Army of Northern Virginia was not defeated and continued to be on the field for almost the next 2yrs. Vicksburg, to me, was the beginning of the end...

[drpiv]

Great video. First week of July 1863 was devastating to the confederacy. Agree that Vicksburg militarily was the more significant loss. Exposed the western flank of the confederacy and forever damaged that supply line.

[troymcmahon]

I would go with the Second battle of Corinth because it pretty much ended all Confederate offensive operation in the Mississippi theater and was a precursor to the capture of Vicksburg. I would also also narrow down the Chattanooga campaign to the siege of Chattanooga as a turning point. The Confederate's failure to wipe out the Army of the Cumberland before the Union reinforced it was why they lost in this theater.

[golfscienceguru]

On the first day at Shiloh, the Confederates had the chance of pushing both Grant and Sherman into the river and the marshes bordering the river, so that both would had been severely demoted, and most likely not given another chance to command. Grant with Sherman had the unique bravery and skills to penetrate deep into Southern territory to force the South to surrender. No other Union generals and for that matter no other Confederate generals had the ability to successfully penetrate deep into enemy territory. Without Grant in command, the Union almost for certain would not been able to penetrate deep into the South, and the Confederates would had held on to form their own nation.

[craftygirl]

I like the early battles including Shiloh followed with the battles of island 10, Henry and Donnelson. These lead to the eventually occupation of Nashville and opened waterways for the Union and helped isolate Vicksburg.

[robertgriffin]

The fighting in the East accomplished little but casualties, while the fighting in the West gained realestate. Looking at the war's beginning, in the West, New Orleans was the South's largest city, Mississippi was the USA's wealthiest state and it's slave population was larger than its free. Shiloh left the West without a unity of command by someone who inspired both the nation and President Davis. Chattanooga, Vicksburg, Atlanta, and Franklin completed the mastery of the lower South, while Virginia carried on. I really appreciate your video and the thoughtful commentary.

[johnhjalmarson]

I think the capture of New Orleans in 1862, coupled with the US Army's victory at Shilo was a major turning point. New Orleans was the largest city in the Confederacy and an important port. Shilo enabled the US Army to capture Corinth and then Memphis which were also important rail junctions. The spring of 1862 resulted in a string of major defeats for the South and the loss of a lot of territory and transportation hubs.