787 vs A350 - Why Boeing For United?

United Airlines was pitched aircraft from Airbus and Boeing when it was looking to develop its widebody and narrowbody fleet. However, for its widebody purposes, the airline selected Boeing-produced planes, specifically the 787; why is United relying so heavily on the Dreamliner? Is this the right decision? Does it make sense, and are there risks involved?

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#aviation #news #flight #aircraft #avgeek #airplane #airlines #airport #planespotting #airbus #boeing

[JingJao]

United and Boeing used to be one company. You forgot that.

[zeddeka]

Perfectly reasonable for an airline to favour one manufacturer, particularly if they have had close links over the years (one of the many companies that merged over the years to form United was Boeing Air Transport). Strong reliance on one manufacturer though can bring its own problems, as we've seen with the well publicised problems with Boeing.

[CharlieHP]

@DJ, maybe this would have been too short, but it would have been the clearest explanation for your audience:

The A350-900 has much higher payload/range than the 787-9, but also needs to fill more seats at slightly higher seat costs which means substantially higher trip costs. The A350-1000 still has better payload/range than the 787-9 while slightly beating it at a seat cost level, but needs to sell many more seats to cover the much higher trip cost. The 787-10 is compromised on payload/range, but on the segments it has enough range to fly, it offers unbeatable seat and trip costs for what you get. Best in widebody aviation.

Considering that United's international route network is mostly to S. America, Europe, and the Far East, and that they don't have nearly as many flights to farther destinations like SE Asia, the middle east, southern africa, or india, United simply does not need the payload/range capabilities of the A350, they can fly their routes carrying all the payload they need with the 787. Most passengers traveling farther will be connecting onto Lufthansa/ANA. The 787-9 lets them fly thinner nonstop routes than their competition. The 787-10 has outrageously good seat costs for the routes it can fly. Right now there is a 777-sized gap in the 787's capabilities where it can't fly a lot of passengers a long way, but certainly Boeing will develop a 787-10ER or whatever they call the eventual airplane with the capacity of the -10 but a lot more payload/range. And mark my words, United will buy those as well.

[Jakesullivan]

That’s a huge order and I’m happy United chose Dreamliner which is my favorite plane in the world 🔥💯🙂

[CBPete]

Whether they order the A350 or not, certainly in no rush to do so...

[Dan.d]

Great for United!! The order makes sense. Since the 787 has been a very integral piece into United's long-haul area, they must think the airplane has faired very well within their fleet. With the huge delay the 777-9X has had, and if Boeing somehow thins out some of their problems somewhat, this new airplane will probably be a key interest within the industry. So yes, United still has their eyes on Boeing aircraft and if these airplanes have been profitable and safe, then why not? (not to include the 737-MAX-9 recent trouble) American Airlines recent order of the 737-MAX-10 proves that they too will continue to order Boeing aircraft as well. They too seem to trust Boeing and continue to use their airplanes because they also need them to replace aging aircraft in their fleets.

[Worldtraveler-]

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[TheChiefEng]

The reason many American airlines have started buying Airbus is not necessarily because Airbus make better airplanes. The reason is simply that Boeing as a company at the moment is not really reliable. When you order an airplane and are being told you will get the airplane in 3 years, it's unacceptable if the airplane maker suddenly tells you that the delivery will be in 6
If Boeing could get the engineers back in control and ensure the production is transparent and flawless, then there would be no reason not to order a Boeing.
The problem for Boeing is that they have gotten sucked into the typical business culture of profit before anything else.
The Airbus culture is typical European in that quality comes before profit.

[Ayden]

Glad to see united is *kind of* trusting Boeing

[paullewis]

I guess some airlines have to keep Boeing in business.

[mikestone]

I think United is making a huge mistake going all in on the 787. With all the problems Boeing is having and the delays United could very easily end up with an out dated fleet of long haul aircraft. I'm sure the US government would not allow Boeing to fold, but another long delay or grounding would not only hurt Boeing, but many airlines. Especially those that have put all their eggs in one basket. I for one refuse to fly on any Boeing airplanes less than 10 years old. I have lost all trust in Boeing.

[Tpr_]

There are some a350s on order though and with a321s coming in this order might not be cancelled. If they really want it at this point it's probably gonna keep being deferred once crew and maintenence team for airbus widebodies actually materializes since they're unfamiliar with airbus widebodies

[chicagolanddesigns]

I’m very convinced that they will take delivery of their a350s. I genuinely think they are just planning on using them to replace their 777s. The 787 and a350 are different categories of long haul. Yes, the 350 can be used for operations the 787 runs, but the 787 cannot run ultra long haul flights as easily as the 350. I hope I’m right, but perhaps not.

[kevinrichard]

Issues concerning 787 fuselage joints.

[williamrense]

Can't go wrong with the 787. The A350 is an excellent plane, but you can't go wrong with the equally excellent 787.

[RabbahDocRona]

With United and Boeing both having HQs in Chicago they are home town sweethearts

[davidcorbett]

It’s quite simple. United are backing America… I know that sounds like a political slogan but United favour US products, nothing to do with capabilities or design of competing aircraft.. secondly, airlines buy aircraft for their missions but the most important of all is on price. They won’t give a dam about the pax comfort lol, that’s way way down the list because all they will do is boast re the new aircraft and whatever bonuses they bring, which all new aircraft will.
Now to commonality of fleet, it can be of great help, but it can also ground you. Buy one type of aircraft and if it develops problems then your whole fleet is grounded. Imagine if you were a start up airline and you based your airline around the 737-10. You would be sunk because of it not being certified or unlikely to be for quite some time of ever.
In the old steam engine days did you ever wonder why there where so many different type from different manufacturers ? Because they would be built for a specific service or mission if you like, their weight power etc where all geared to a specific area/service. United having ordered the 3 variants of the B787 might be seen as a clever cost saving aspect But there are problems with the 787 as with all Boeing aircraft at the moment and if the 787 is grounded again it will severely hamper United and you could see those A350 being on the order book rather than deferred. Airbus are smiling anyway because should United decide not to take them, other airlines will snap up their delivery slots. It’s better to have a mix of long haul aircraft and a common fleet of short haul…. That’s the clever way to go 😅

[kermecke]

The delivery of the A350 was postponed simply because the retirement of the 777 was postponed. UNITED has 96 of them that all have to be replaced in a few years. Airbus has a firm contract with UNITED for 45 planes, and if the Chicago guys wanted to step away from that contract it would cost them real money. As far as I know, there has not been a single statement by higher UNITED management that the fulfillment of the A-purchase was in doubt. That opinion was only pushed by the fanboy league in online debates.

There is one more point: UNITED has started very serious considerations how to reduce its dependency from Boeing on the SA (single aisle) side. If they wanted to succeed, they would need to buy 'busses massively. Airbus, OTOH, is now in a position that they can leverage their superior reign in the upper SA segment (A321neo) by requesting WB purchases if they allocated early slots becoming available (like those being returned by SPIRIT) to an airline in desire.

[stevenlemieux]

Way back when Boeing built the B-247 United was owned by Boeing. United was promised the first 60 B-247's leaving United ahead of the competition. TWA went to Douglas to build a plane better than the B-247 and the prototype DC-1 was built and then DC-2 then the most built aircraft at that time the DC-3..

[nigelm]

Great for United, but with the commonality strategy of Airbus a pilot can as far as I know fly A350 and 330 and with the strategy with reduce training trained on A320 … so if you have an Airbus fleet, flexibility beyond one family 🎉